Thrones Review, Season 8 Episode 5: "The Bells"
Added 2019-05-14 12:26:10 +0000 UTCWell, that was something. King's Landing: dead. Sandor: dead. Cersei: dead. Jaime: dead. Euron: Good riddance. Here, we talk about our favorite and least favorite moments, we delve deep into Daenerys as destroyer or worlds and talk about Jaime as the NotAQar!
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Comments
There's a shot where Dany is flying towards the Red Keep, turns, and instead heads towards the city to murder a bunch of people she has no grievance whatsoever towards instead of Cersei
Hall wingfield
2022-10-31 01:31:27 +0000 UTCI'm really enjoying my re-listen, so here's a very late comment. I think Jeff is exactly right that there's plenty of foreshadowing and ground work for Dany's turn, but it still felt unearned to me. It's not consistent with Dany's past atrocities to have her kill the Lannister soldiers and Kings Landing civilians because Cersei killed Missandei or because Jon told about his parentage. Emmett is right that it would have been better with dark Tyrion, but I also like Jeff's idea from last episode. Instead of having the Iron Fleet kill a dragon, have the Lannister soldiers do it here, under a false parlay. Then do the battle, followed by the surrender. When the bells ring, show some Flea Bottom civilians harvesting Rhaegal's fangs and scales. Given an immediate provocation, I could totally see Dany's turn. Heck, even give her a speech "It's not enough. They have to fear me or I'll never break the wheel" before she attacks, and I would buy it.
Ser Biffy Clegane
2022-05-11 17:08:30 +0000 UTCyes man, I would have liked to see that. Almost anything but the shit we were inflicted, honestly, but your ideas would have made for great tv.
Ric_Rome
2019-05-19 22:04:34 +0000 UTCSomething that came to mind while listening...you mentioned that Dany went “full Aerys” at the tolling of the bells. I think if Tyrion had been properly characterized to be the devil in her ear we would see the destruction of Kings Landing as going “full Tywin”...if they were borrowing the bells from JonCon they should have taken that part too!
Zackery Knowlden
2019-05-18 17:45:11 +0000 UTCI am continually amazed at how well Emmett understands and articulates my feelings. Or quite disturbed. It's definitely one or the other.
Jason Icerman
2019-05-16 19:42:12 +0000 UTCAs you encouraged your listeners to write their own versions of the story, do you think this setup could have worked better: First: Varys is not killed. They attack the city, the golden company and the gate, but ignore the iron fleet. The city surrenders and Daenerys goes after the iron fleet. Cercei flees with the mountain through tunnels and is followed by Jaime. When Jon enters the throne room, he is greeted by Varys (who went there by tunnel) and a group of high lords who beg him to become king. He refuses but then someone starts shouting 'Aegon King!' and more and more people start chanting, even outside the keep. That's when Dany comes back from destoying the iron fleet. She lands her dragon and people are afraid. She then takes off. Cercei comes to a tower, where the wildfire is stashed away. Jaime enters and is wounded by the mountain, but before he is killed, Sandor appears and the two start fighting. Cercei taunts Jaime that he cannot kill her and tries to ignite the wildfire. Jaime kills her and she dies in his arms. In the meantime some Dothraky try to rape a woman, are attacked by a Lannister man trying to save her and the fighting in the city starts again. Daenerys starts attacking the city. Jaime leaves the tower on the roof and is spotted by Daenerys. In her rage she attacks him with dragonfire, ignites the wildfire and watches with horror as the whole city (except the red keep) explodes. She then flies away. This way there would have used the young grift plot (he stole my throne, my people and my destiny), the valonqar-prophecy and a plausible explanation for Danys attack on innocent civilians. In the last episode she then can decide to kill drogon and be killed in the attempt, sacrificing her self to avoid more harm.
Florian Kirchmair
2019-05-16 17:41:20 +0000 UTCAnother great analysis gentlemen...nice to get a reaction that is neither a knee-jerk rant or a desperate defence. I have some thoughts Why do we care about what has happened to GOT? It's just a TV show...right? I've been trying to reason with myself about this but my feelings just keep rearing their heads. I just can't get my head around the contempt the DDs have shown for the audience who have lined their wallets for the last 8 years. They are assuming that half of the audience will be too ignorant to look past the dragons and the entrails, while those who do won't give a crap because they have the books. Well they really misread that room. I don't have an issue with the fact that Danaerys is capable of committing genocide...but only because I have read and re-read the text and therein lies groundwork for this to happen. Whether it does or does not ultimately happen remains to be seen, but if it does, we can be sure that it will be earned and it will have consequences. Here, it makes for a grotesque spectacle and nothing more. Would a personal confrontation between two very compelling characters not have been more gripping and more satisfying? No...let's fuck all that and just have guys with swords and bitches be crazy. EVERY character is belittled here. Every woman is mad and every man is an idiot. I can't understand how they turned away from dramatic beats that would have enhanced the emotional impact so much...let Jamie leave Brienne...but only because he feels that he will never have truly earned Briennes love until he faces his own misdeeds and forces Cersei to do the same. I would have preferred if Cersei survived and Jamie died...as long as this catharsis was achieved. I really hate what has happened to Jamie and Brienne in this show. Their arc in the books is a beautiful exploration of how, to paraphrase Tolkien, one can ' look into the heart of an enemy and see only love and understanding" and the transformative effect this can have on a character. Sansa is GLAD she was raped....it made her a harder and more cynical person which is great. It obviously made her more capable and intelligent as well so thank God for sexual assault I suppose. The Hound should have put his brother out of his misery as an act of mercy...oh my God I could go on. Even Greyworm is denied his dignity at the end. Anyway, thanks for running the therapy sessions. I really appreciate your wit and your analysis. Hope you still have a lot more to say because it is worth hearing.
June Coates
2019-05-15 15:58:49 +0000 UTCAlso as far as content production and quality are concerned, I just want to make an observation. The first six seasons each had varying degrees of quality, but one thing remained: they all contained ten episodes. The last two seasons are significantly abbreviated with fewer episodes. Sometimes in shows this can work and sometimes not. In a universe as vast and complex as this book series is, and what the show attempted to adapt, I think that gamble on shorter final seasons may have affected how viewers engaged and perceived the show. Before I go any further, I find it almost impossible for any tv show or movie to properly adapt a novel or even a series of novels. That being said, perhaps a few more episodes in later seasons would have helped with additional groundwork for plots to stretch out more naturally for viewers. That may have also given extra time for character development to lead our main characters to their current situations as of "The Bells". Again that's just my thoughts, for what it's worth (which is probably little to nothing).
Keith Johnson
2019-05-14 22:47:57 +0000 UTCGreat overview of the episode guys. If we're only focusing on the show's version of things, then Varys' quote from Season 2 in "Blackwater" holds more weight here than ever: "I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege...."
Keith Johnson
2019-05-14 22:27:33 +0000 UTCLoved the episode. For the record, one chokes on food. Bad people (Tyrion and Jamie) strangle others. As Stannis fans you should appreciate this nuance of grammar 😉. Also using “choked” in this context minimizes this crime that is far too frequently perpetrated against women. Keep up the great work. Love your takes. You help me enjoy show and books in a brand new way!
TarthGirl
2019-05-14 20:00:20 +0000 UTCNailing it once again, the sadness about the show ending vs waiting for WoW... balm. Thank you.
Spentrails#1886
2019-05-14 19:17:06 +0000 UTCThanks for your balance and general awesomeness gentleman. I found this episode really, really helped me think through season 8 and the ending of the show.
Jancy Overell
2019-05-14 18:56:40 +0000 UTCExcellent episode guys. I think Emmett is on the money with the end game and Jon Con and Young Griff and Dany. I found myself nodding a lot to this one.
Reid Linwood
2019-05-14 14:45:45 +0000 UTC
