GAME OF THRONES, Season 8, Episode 5: "The Bells" QUESTIONS!
Added 2019-05-13 12:57:41 +0000 UTC
In what is shaping up to be perhaps the most controversial Game of Thrones episode of all time, Emmett and Jeff embark on recording tonight. And they need, need your questions! So, ask away!
Comments
Hi Frank!
Alan Ciammaichella
2019-05-14 11:44:51 +0000 UTCCersei’s abuse of family members, her political mistakes, her debts, her short-termism, and her betrayals finally caught up with her, and her house of cards collapsed under its own consequences to give a magnificently satisfying villain death. Just like in Lion King when Scar was killed by a nuclear explosion. Or when Voldemort was arrested for a tax fraud he didn’t commit. Hang on a second… The only action Cersei took which had negative consequences was justifiably believing her hitherto-invincible military would show up to the battle. Not even Jaime’s arc had any consequence for her. Accepting the show’s overall plot for Cersei, how could they have scripted her downfall to make it worthwhile?
Hunding
2019-05-14 08:22:25 +0000 UTCYou’ve spoken about how the relationship between STANNIS and Renly affected macro-scale politics and thousands of deaths in the W0t5K. Seasons 7&8 have attempted to have the relationship between Dany & Jon drive the main narrative and tragically shape the world around them. Do you think this is a story worth telling, and have you found GoT’s telling of it convincing and fulfilling?
Hunding
2019-05-14 06:59:27 +0000 UTCI watched this episode and fell into a pit of madness. I was literally on the edge of my seat as Dany waited on the wall, waited for the tolling of the bells, waiting... And then, the bells began to ring, one after the other, it was a wonderful and beautiful song - a testament to a city throwing off the yoke of terrible rulers, and inviting Dany to come in and be the Queen they needed. It was a wonderful shining moment that I was not expecting. And all that remained now was how was Dany going to take Cercei out. And then WTF??????? This tender hearted woman, who would rather chain her dragons up than let them eat one nameless child, suddenly began attacking the people of the city who had just surrendered to her. I started crying and could not stop. Not the the thousands of nameless innocents who were being used as human shields, but for the death of the character that is Daenarys Targaryen. I wept with anger and frustration and utter disappointment. I have loved this series, and obsessed over it. I listen to and support several podcasts dedicated to this series, and I sat there and watched one of my favorite characters do something that made no sense. It would have been just as awful if Jon, or Sansa, or Bran had done it. I understand that people can snap when they experience trauma. But they had laid down their weapons and rang the bells and this just seemed like the sloppiest laziest writing. I don't even care about watching the last episode. A series I have followed for 9 years, and I don't care what happens now. Maybe Jon will be a vampire, maybe Sansa will decide that she wants to start eating people for breakfast, I don't know. This was just as weird as if the cast of Seinfeld had started killing everyone in the courtroom, or if Capt Picard had ordered the slaughter of a planet and the rest of the crew went along with it. This was weird bat shit crazy writing, she's destroying a city and is nowhere near the Red Keep, just killing people, for sport maybe? We don't even get to see Dany's face as she's killing, does it bring her pleasure or pain? Did she black out? How was she so completely useless during the Long Night, but suddenly her dragon is basically Superman? What was the point of Euron? What was the point of him killing Jamie?? That was just the weirdest most nothing thing to me. What was the point of Cleganebowl? Why would Grey Worm start killing innocents?? Why wasn't Jon more of a leader and getting people to fall back like WAY earlier than he did? How was the master of whisperers taken out so easily? The man who is an expert at hiding his tracks now is just sitting in his room writing treason? Since when can the little birds speak, they're not supposed to have tongues? Why is Kings Landing so flat when it's supposed to be built on top of three big hills? And what was going on with the random wildfire explosions? Is that a nod to the way it will really go down in the books? Because there's just rando green flashes that they don't explain. And finally, the main bad guy villain is now supposed to be Cerci and she dies because the roof collapsed? Lame lame lame lame. LAME!!! I feel betrayed. I feel like in a single episode, they brought down with it took 9 years to build up. I preferred D&D in the first 4 seasons where they didn't have the money to create big battles and they had to get creative. This just sucked, and I am so angry about how they have treated these characters. Arya fought her way into the Red Keep just to be our POV as she changes her mind and leaves? What was the point of her going there? Sandor dies by fire as planned? But he had to bust through a wall, and there was no way for him to know that there was fire on the outside of it! Why would Robert Strong abandon Cerci right at that particular moment?? To kill a little brother he didn't give a crap about? None of this makes any sense. So completely disappointed.
Pepper Nix
2019-05-14 05:32:41 +0000 UTCAll right guys, here's my question: After watching the sack of King's Landing and seeing the horrors of large scale human suffering unfold, was I the only one who mentally relapsed into Quentyn's ADwD chapters regarding the Siege/Sack of Astapor and him being horrified after witnessing the slaughter and destruction?
Keith Johnson
2019-05-14 00:21:05 +0000 UTCOk just thought of another one (which has probably been asked) but what sweetness do you see them bringing to the last episode? I love what they’ve done but I only see heartbreak for everyone
Fiona Piper
2019-05-13 23:50:40 +0000 UTCI’m probably too late for questions but just want to comment on the episode. I watched it about 18hts after most and was, by my own fault, subjected to diverse opinions. I LOVED this episode. One of the reasons I fell in love with ASOIF on the first read was how grrm made my change my opinions of characters. Jaime will always be my 2nd favourite character (Arya-for reasons 1st) because he was the guy I loathed, then symphathesid, then routed for. It makes perfect sense to me he went back to the woman he loved, his twin! And they were together at the last. I loved Arya calling him Sandor and him finally breaching his owns fears and tearing his brother down. It was horrible to see our ‘savouir’ decided that winning wasn’t enough and she needed vengeance but that’s what I loved about grrms writing to start with, the change of perspective of each character. That she goes from good to bad is hard to deal with but its what makes me love George’s world. I was not expecting to but I loved the episode. I feel it hit so many ASOIAF themes and character projections I am more than happy. Since I should probably ask a question I would ask if you thought the Arya/horse scene had more significance than a Gandalf/hero troupe thing (I wasn’t a fan). Love you guys and all you do!
Fiona Piper
2019-05-13 23:42:52 +0000 UTCHi guys I want to share a few thoughts with you and I’d like you to get back even in a comment if you don’t find the time to address this in the episode. The worst thing about this episode is that it is depressing on so many respects. And I’m not talking about the bad writing. That Daenerys ends up doing what his father failed to do - killing hundreds of thousands of innocents - is depressing on a narrative level (that this is the conclusion of her arc is so...boringly cruel, I can’t find better words). It is also depressing on a character development level because such development hasn’t actually taken place. True, Daenerys endures a lot and loses a lot. True, she has shown fits of biblical (meaning unhinged) justice in the past. And she has threatened to burn cities to the grounds. But the reality is that her actions have never been so terrible as her gruesome threats. She has also shown care and empathy and a sense of duty (for instance by going north to fight the dead). What the show is telling us is that Daenerys has gone full Hitler for possibly two reasons: 1) if you go through hard times, you may end up a mass murderer. Really? This is the shit idea of human beings we have? Empirical evidence clearly doesn’t support the point: you may have people who have snapped after experiencing traumas, but also people who have remained quite human/humane. Clearly if you become a killer because of hard times the problem is deeper, it’s that you suffer from a lack of affections, you’re incapable of having relations based on affections. Was Daenerys so devoid of such a capacity of feeling affections? The shows hasn’t shown her that way. Cersei was that, not Daenerys. So if experience isn’t the key, what is it? Well of course is 2) genetics. The whole cliche of mad Targaryens (plainly unsubstantied by the books, where the mad Targaryens are 3 perhaps: Maegor, Aerion and Aerys). I know this is a controversial opinion in modern psychiatry, but mental illness is not genetically transmissible, there’s no proof of it and actually there’s proof of the contrary. But this drives me away from the point I wanted to make. Even though you believe genetics has to do with mental illness or are neutral-agnostic on the issue you will agree with me that a Daenerys genetically doomed to become her Hitleresque father is pretty boring as a narrative device and extremely depressing for the reader. The other exceptionally depressing message this episode spreads around is that there’s no way you can break a pathological relationship of co-dependence. If Jaime had remained the same for 8 seasons, I would have understood and even liked that his final words to Cersei are more or less the same he tells her in Season 1 ep3 or 4 (basically “nothing else matter but us”; I guess Tyrion would be happy to hear that). While I do agree with Emmett that Jaime not sustaining a positive self-realization such as his relationship with Brienne is realistic, I don’t see why all his experiences since Season 3 may bring him back to Seasons 1-2 as if the rest had just been annulled, made non-existent. So my final point is that aside from bad writing the greatest damage this season is doing is to advance an extremely depressing - and absolutely unfounded - notion of human anthropology. Jorah Mormont summed it up perfectly: there’s a beast in every man and it stirs when you put a sword (or a dragon) in his hand. That may be true, but not because human beings are born like that. They become like that because of the invisible violence they suffer in human relations with people incapable of truly warm relations, especially in their early years of their lives. That makes them lose their capacity of relating to other human beings on the basis of affections instead of abstract constructs such as religion, morality, familial duty, nationalism, social norms etc. We are born equal because we are all born with the same possibility of having a life of affections. Game of Thrones is now telling: no way, human beings are fucked up by nature. Fuck off, I’m not buying this and never will
Ric_Rome
2019-05-13 23:40:09 +0000 UTCWhat’s the closest historical parallel you can think of for Dany’s actions after the bells ring? A supreme commander declining to accept an unconditional surrender and personally ordering (in this case, committing) brutal war crimes against civilians without any clear objective.
Guy Incognito
2019-05-13 23:28:30 +0000 UTCDo you also hope that Book!Euron says "another king for you" and "I am the man who killed Jaime Lannister" before dying? Ok, now a serious question: is it possible that Arya's presence in King's Landing is a setup for her killing Dany in the final episode? PS. I absolutely loved Varys' "Men decide when power resides" reference at the beginning of the episode
vsv
2019-05-13 22:41:32 +0000 UTCHey, guys! I have two questions: first, I am firmly in the camp that Dany inadvertently blows up King's Landing. Do you think she will do so when she has some of her own people inside the walls? Like Grey Worm, Strong Belwas, or Jorah? So she not only has the guilt of killing a whole lot of people but also people she cares about? That leads to the next question: do you think we will have a POV inside the city walls when it happens? Someone on the ground to show the horror and chaos like Arya did? Thanks, guys!
Lord Jake, Assistant (to the) Hand of the King
2019-05-13 22:33:30 +0000 UTCSo, the bells. That was really about Jon Connington, right?
Courtney Simpson
2019-05-13 21:39:09 +0000 UTCOkay, I'm going to be the odd man out and say it, "I loved this episode." Don't get me wrong, I haven't been too pleased with the season as a whole and D&D's take on the story but I feel that the main plotlines will hold true even for the books, specifically the scourging of kings landing. In your opinion, what parts of this will hold true? Do you think the fall of king's landing by Dany's doing is the endgame direction and that Jon will be forced to take her life? How do you think Euron will play into this? Will his pyshco drug trip bring him to kings landing and play some roll in it's destruction? Long time fan, love everything you both do for the community and keep up the excellent work.
SC Philip
2019-05-13 20:29:25 +0000 UTCIs King’s Landing Nissa Nissa?
Azor Ahai Five
2019-05-13 20:26:08 +0000 UTCI can't help myself, so one more... Do you think the timing of Dany's destruction of KL will hold true in the book--assuming we get A Dream of Spring--in that it will occur after Boat Sex and the Long Night? 24 hours ago I would have said, no. But now w Dany going full targ, if the order is flipped--wow--it changes e v e r y t h i n g. In that alt-Verse, pragmatic Jon strikes deal w ruling devil Queen to kill the dead, falls in love, learns his parentage, and then is confronted w a choice of love vs. duty. It's the same basic movements but completely different impacts on the characters! So much so that I don't think D&D would do it... but maybe I am giving them too much credit. And so, the show order is what it is for reasons that have nothing to do w story telling and the change in character dynamic is just collateral damage.
Jason Icerman
2019-05-13 20:21:10 +0000 UTCGood luck w this episode fellas... After that heel turn, I am left wondering how ep6 will squeeze out some sweetness for Dany. Given it was clearly and intentionally setup so she didn't need to go full Targ to win the battle, what can she do (if anything) in your opinion(s) for redemption? Bonus question. Given what we know now, what was the point of the s7 scene where Dany makes Varys promise to come to her first if she strays from protecting the people? Or did both characters just "forget" this as well.
Jason Icerman
2019-05-13 20:00:52 +0000 UTCDo you believe this may be one of the three “holy shit” moments GRRM told D&D? A Targaryen sacking KL held by a Lannister after it had surrendered, which is the opposite of a Lannister sacking KL held by the Targaryens after they surrendered and causing the downfall of her house. I definitely don’t believe the way we got here was accurate, but it just seems too poetic to be concoction of D&D at this point. PS RIP Penis face, we barely knew you....
Keriann Dengos
2019-05-13 19:49:38 +0000 UTCSo, how do you guys think Quiathe will help fix Dany's situaish in the last episode?
JDL
2019-05-13 18:04:32 +0000 UTCCan we agree that all of Jorah’s misdeeds are substantially less bad than what show Dany did this week?
James R Ward
2019-05-13 17:51:53 +0000 UTCWhat will Dany's reaction be to her fire and blood approach to winning the throne? Will we get a few beats where she shows fear or sorrow at how far she went? Will she just embrace the darkness and sip wine as she watches the city burn? Do you think the show will spend time on character moments like that or will it speed to the conclusion?
Rebecca
2019-05-13 17:31:58 +0000 UTCHave you seen this? https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bnva6q/spoilers_ian_mcelhinney_barristan_selmy_saying What are your thoughts on this rumor (which definitely seems way too good to be true)?
Kompe
2019-05-13 17:31:47 +0000 UTCDoes it seem to you guys that the plate has been set for either: 1) Dany returns to Essos where she is loved and rules already? She no longer fears Westeros interference because she has dismantled the seat of power and left no heir apparent to the ash pile. Sorry Gendry... 2) Jon and/or Arya to kill Dany for the good of the realm?
Major Woody
2019-05-13 17:25:56 +0000 UTCIt was terrible writing how the scorpions go from unbeatable dragon slayer tech to kindling in one episode. That many ships and that many placements on the wall and no one can really get off a shot never mind land one? 😖
Major Woody
2019-05-13 17:21:17 +0000 UTCWe've seen Dany reject Fire & Blood repeatedly based on advice from "reasonable men" like Tyrion and Varys, only for that advice to backfire catastrophically at the cost of her troops, her initiative, and her dragons. Her turn to "Mad Queen" doesn't occur in a vacuum, and it doesn't work for me when the context is increasing anger, frustration, and alienation following poor advice from the same subordinates who then use that frustration as an excuse to betray her (keeping in mind that they began questioning her mental state and plotting treason well before the carnage in KL went beyond the pale). The result is not a compelling narrative of Dany going mad, it's just a story of "women = emotional = mad, men = rational = capable" that doesn't seem to hold up to what we're shown. Am I stupid and ugly for feeling super disappointed by this?
Kyle Bagshaw
2019-05-13 17:12:10 +0000 UTCI've been hearing a lot of reactions online about how "Dany would never do anything like this" from both show only and book reader fans. I'm personally in the camp that Dany will eventually burn KL in some fashion (dragons plant no trees) in the books, but I can see how the transition to this point in the show has left many unsatisfied. Do you think the show has done itself a disservice by sticking to the same end states as GRRM while removing the Aegon subplot and making characters like Tyrion much more sympathetic? Would you have accepted/preferred AU endings for our characters in the show that might have felt more satisfying given the onscreen versions of themselves? Love the podcast, keep up the great work guys.
Alex J
2019-05-13 16:30:36 +0000 UTCWhat did you guys think of Arya’s story in this episode, I’ve heard a lot of complaints that she didn’t do anything. For me I felt it was a call back to her POV as the eyes of the plight of the small folk, personally I liked it, it humanized her again, making her not just the saviour of WF anymore. She was as helpless as everyone else. I do think going forward she has a new name on her list, and likely a dragon also.
Bword
2019-05-13 16:28:18 +0000 UTCSo. That was a lot. Obviously there was a lot of tension being built between Jon and Dany. They couldn’t possibly peacefully coexist at this point. My question is: who will kill the other? Will Dany have Jon executed via Drogon? (please god say he, too, isn’t fire immune) Will Jon kill Dany? Will either be set up as a Nissa Nissa type sacrifice and can we really believe their love was somehow serious enough to justify that mirroring?
Knight of the Laughing Tree
2019-05-13 16:14:40 +0000 UTCWhat’s the quote from DC? Either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That rings true enough for Dany, but I don’t believe it with this execution or the story. What do you both think about Dany going over the edge during the surrender? How will that track in the books’ dark Dany path!
Christina Dilsdale
2019-05-13 16:11:18 +0000 UTCWhat was the point of the Cersei pregnancy storyline?
Zack Newman
2019-05-13 15:29:52 +0000 UTCWhat was the point of Euron
Zack Newman
2019-05-13 15:29:36 +0000 UTCWhat was the point of Harry Strickland and the Golden Company?
Zack Newman
2019-05-13 15:29:24 +0000 UTCBonus question... Chances of HBO teasing WOW release date as credits roll next week? Get hyped!
Mike Edwards
2019-05-13 15:04:45 +0000 UTCDoes it seem like all of this backlash from both casual show fans and hardcore book fans could have been resolved if they just did normal length seasons? I think Dany nuking KL makes sense but the execution did not have the necessary build up to effectively show Danys downfall. Also, if Dany does this in book with Young Griff, how do you think she deals with it internally a s POV when she eventually travels North? What will Jon and company think of her after they learn of her burning KL?
Mike Edwards
2019-05-13 15:04:05 +0000 UTCDo you guys think that with the backlash of how things are going with the show, that this will be encouraging for GRRM to finish to books (to show how to write the story right), or discouraging to him that people are unhappy with how things end?
PenchantForNostalgia
2019-05-13 14:57:33 +0000 UTCPeople have commented quite a lot that GRRM probably writes the histories and novellas to workshop ideas for the main series, and ever since it became clear that Dany was going to be going on a "Mad Queen" arc in the show, it made me wonder about the Dunk and Egg stories. I don't know what GRRM's original plan was for writing them or how fast he thought he'd be able to do so. But considering that we know Egg's end was at Summerhall, there's definitely been speculation that maybe Egg's actions were predicated in some way by a descent into "Targaryen madness." If this is Dany's fate in the books, do you think GRRM might have started writing Dunk and Egg as an exercise into exploring how a beloved character (Egg) could go mad in preparation for writing Daenerys doing the same?
champagnerain
2019-05-13 14:52:17 +0000 UTCWhat do you think Tyrion's role will be in Dany's burning of King's Landing in WOW/DOS? What is the likelihood that his role will be switched from the show, and that he will work toward the destruction of the city, in alignment with his "I wish I had enough poison for you all" line from his trial in ASOS?
Septon Eastwood of Introvert Isle
2019-05-13 14:48:46 +0000 UTCHow fast did your joy turn to ashes in your mouth when you realized that the real valonqar was the rubble that fell along the way? If there was one storyline that needed a dramatic ending it was Cersei and Jaime's, and I felt that the conclusion we got was not proportional to the intensity of their arcs so far. I wanted pathos and drama from the Lannister family tragedy, damn it! Also, so glad they finally adapted the Alester Florent plotline!
Laura Lanzoni
2019-05-13 14:45:31 +0000 UTCDo you think the showrunners did a good job of explaining Dany's motivation for burning greater Kings Landing? It would definitely be understandable for her to want to burn down the Red Keep, but why Flea Bottom?? Even as a relative foreigner, she had to have known that the smallfolk had nothing to do with Cercei's cruelty. In my opinion simply saying that she's gone "Full Mad Queen" is a cop-out Another observation: I thought it was a neat detail to have explosions of wildfire here and there along with the dragon flames. Aerys' "secret stash" couldn't have been completely cleaned up! On another interesting note, back in Season 2, Varys noted that the bells in Kings Landing always seem to ring for "horror". At the time, it seemed like a way to set Tyrion up for a quip, but as it turns out, he certainly wasn't wrong!
Michael Bruno
2019-05-13 14:44:28 +0000 UTCWhy do you think the whole plot of S7 revolved around propping up Cersei if Lena Headey was only going to get like a dozen lines in S8?
Eric Devlin
2019-05-13 14:38:12 +0000 UTCI’ve seen debate about whether it’s snow or ash falling at the end of the episode and in Daenerys’s dream. I think it’s intentionally ambiguous so you can read either (fire and ice) but will become clear next episode that it is snowing, in universe symbolism for Jon Snow being forced to press his claim. Being almost certain Varys got his letters out I think it’s safe to say this will be the central issue in the finale. Your thought on this gentlemen?
Sir Way of Course
2019-05-13 14:37:45 +0000 UTCSaw something on twitter that gave me pause and really put everything in perspective with how certain character arcs have progressed or ended. Do you think the show is being overly nihilistic in regards to the way they handled the following character arcs. -Jaime going back to Cersei It’s seemed like all of his progression over 7 was thrown out of a window (pun intended) in one episode just to get him to die with Cersei -Sandor dying in a fire with his brother -Missandei dying in chains -Dany going full mad queen Okay, there’s plenty of hints in the books that she may go down this path. But how she got here in the show felt completely unearned to me. She’s always tried to defend the innocent and deal out justice in ways which she thought was fair but may have been a little heavy handed (the crucifixion of the masters) for example. Just like Jaime, all of her development was burnt to the ground in a short amount of 3 episodes time just to get her to this point. I felt like her isolation and loss of empathy should’ve been much longer in the making for her to turn her anger on innocent townsfolk. I really think the show runners really went full grim-dark with these characters. I know it’s just pure conjecture and complete prognostication, but do you think these character arcs will end the same or different in the books, and if so how.
Mark
2019-05-13 14:31:30 +0000 UTCDaenerys has always had a brutal edge to her character, but it has been a utilitarian one. Her most questionable moves (the crucifixions and the torture of the wineseller's daughter) are made in an attempt to do justice for other evils or to protect her people. As you have pointed out before, Stannis as a cautionary tale or foreshadowing makes sense, as it seems clear that his end is making an awful utilitarian choice to sacrifice one child to the flames for a million. I can absolutely accept a Dany who chooses fire and blood as the means to her end, but this was a Dany choosing fire and blood as the end. She had won, in the moment she decides to start killing her war is over and her life's work has ended in victory. Yes, she has lost her friends and allies, but she is the queen in that moment! The only way that I can see this is means is that she is so afraid that the people will acclaim Jon out of love that she needs to have unending fear to be queen, like she had read only one sentence of Machiavelli, rather than the full context about never being hated. It just doesn't seem that she needed to kill a million to instill fear- I'm pretty sure if she just burned down and destroyed the Red Keep the people would fear her AND she would have killed a bunch of innocents instrumentally. As it is, she goes back and forth slaughtering indiscriminately- how would she not have hit her own troops constantly?
Thomas Esty
2019-05-13 14:29:21 +0000 UTCI almost loathe to go back here, but regarding Leonardo's crossbows; why were they such an overpowering weapon last week, literally plucking a dragon from the sky with 3 perfectly placed shots in succession and then demolishing an entire fleet, then completely and utterly useless this week? They almost took great pains to show how long it takes to load and aim one of these cumbersome weapons in ep 5, while they were basically medieval Patriot missiles in ep 4.
Alan Ciammaichella
2019-05-13 14:25:53 +0000 UTCHere's one for you. If it's theorized that George gave the show runners a general outline of how the book ends. Do you think that 1. What was portrayed in the show was accurate and if so will George change the outcome given the controversy. I am all for Dany going medieval. But it should be done in a consistent way that is in concert with her character. I always thought that Dany becoming heavy handed in the potential books would have something to do with the fact that people saw her holding back in Mereen as being soft and she was being taken advantage of. And after Dance she'd take off the gloves but something would happen to make her reign herself back in.
Veronica Diall
2019-05-13 14:24:47 +0000 UTCCan you explain why the bells set Dany off without referencing the books?
Ed Pearson
2019-05-13 14:15:18 +0000 UTCA question, a comment, and a question. First question, WTF? Comment: this is why I generally dislike action movies.. implausible action sequences and vague outline of motivations. Second question: I’m assuming that even if the plot is identical in the books, George will do a much better job of telling the story. What plot points do you think the books will have in common with season 8?
James Stenoish
2019-05-13 14:15:01 +0000 UTCDo you feel like Dany burning KL is the 3rd thing that GRRM revealed to D&D in their discussion? Or was the show always headed this way?
Alan Ciammaichella
2019-05-13 14:08:54 +0000 UTCI found Clegane bowl completely unsatisfying Because once Sandor realised his brother was undead & unlikely to die then it kinda became pointless. What's your opinion - did it live up to the hype??
Lady Dayne the Twighlight Star
2019-05-13 14:07:45 +0000 UTCD&D have obviously gotten a lot of criticism (rightly deserved btw) of the way the quality of the writing has declined significantly since around season 5 (Dorne anyone?). I personally have some sympathy for them, considering they are basically adapting material that has not been published yet and are basically working on what seems to be a myriad of future plot points that GRRM gave them back in 2013 (which in all likelihood may have changed since then) but without the narrative context for those plot points to carry any emotional weight. Basically my question to you guys is how much of a mistake was it to remove fAegon's plot in the books from the show which would have clearly been a more compelling reason for Dany to nuke King's Landing?
Aslan Christbeard
2019-05-13 14:05:03 +0000 UTCCan we just get a “do-over” on this season. You know, like after GRRM releases the remaining books.
Kaffee Stark
2019-05-13 13:49:33 +0000 UTCAlso to remain on brand and if you cowards don't wanna fight for my amusement on the Dany setup then let's talk about something nice: Stannis descent into the abyss and what it could mean for Dany here. Do we think Stannis is GRRMs trial run for just how far into the deep end of the abyss you can put someone before you lose everyone on them and thus he'll know when to pull Dany back from it? Loved Emmett's point about isolation on Dragonstone for Dany as very Stannisesque, any other parallels y'all see?
Frank B
2019-05-13 13:21:43 +0000 UTCIs there any chance Tyrion could now be seen as a claimant to the throne? After all, he is Cersei's heir... could the three heads of the dragon have a new meaning in this light?
Keggcom
2019-05-13 13:21:08 +0000 UTCso I guess Cersei wasn’t that bad after all? Dany was faking the whole time that she cared about anyone? Jon should just go north and make another night king and be done with it lol. If this is GrrM’s idea of a good story I really don’t see why I should read past Dance.
Andrew
2019-05-13 13:19:45 +0000 UTCIt seems like the show may be foreshadowing Arya killing Danny. When I originally read Feast, I remember wondering how the faceless men would feel about Danny and wondering if they would send Arya (or someone else) to kill her. If this is where the show is headed, does this tell us anything about the FM plot in the books?
TarthGirl
2019-05-13 13:18:28 +0000 UTCDid Dan & Dave purposefully hide the Fire & Blood side of Dany's character in the last few seasons on purpose or is it just bad writing ?? In season two in Qarth she was all over it with the "I will take what is mine with fire & blood I will take it!" And "When my dragons are grown I will lay waste to armies & burn cities to the ground." Lazy or sly - I can't decide 🤷
Lady Dayne the Twighlight Star
2019-05-13 13:17:38 +0000 UTCWas the white horse a symbol of Arya turning away from her dark side? Or is she death come on a pale horse? Was she coming out of murder mode as Dany slipped into it?
Tracy McMillan
2019-05-13 13:16:58 +0000 UTCWas that Dan & Dave attempting some symbolism at the end there?? Arya their Avatar of Death on a Pale Horse 🤔 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. Revelation 6:7-8 Is Arya going after Dany now?
Lady Dayne the Twighlight Star
2019-05-13 13:13:37 +0000 UTCafter listening to your last chapter podcast, it seems Dany has enacted upon kings landing the wrath of dothraki. do you think this was intentional? in the episode preview we see the dothraki rejoicing and the ravaging seemed similar to that chapter.
kylemania
2019-05-13 13:12:11 +0000 UTCOk that was rough. Do you think George might have given D&D the plot point of Dany being responsible for the destruction of King's Landing by unintentionally igniting wildfire during her Dance of Dragons face-off with fAegon and they just decided to cut and paste the event into their warped chronology? I have trouble envisioning book Dany murdering so many civilians on such a scale for any reason, but this seemed particularly under-motivated.
Tom Roe
2019-05-13 13:11:34 +0000 UTCI have been an ASOIAF obsessive for about 5 years. That said, it has been incredibly distressing to me that I feel so little emotional weight when watching Season 8. For example, Cersei and Jaime are my two favorite fantasy villains/antiheroes, and when they died, I felt nothing. What was missing? Season 8 has been above average IMO, but the emotional weight just isn’t there. So, my question to you guys is, What is missing to make it so unsatisfying? Will the books be similar? GRRM’s previous work is full of anticlimactic endings.
John Herzog
2019-05-13 13:08:17 +0000 UTCHi guys, wow that was a lot. I guess after all that, we are heading for what seems to be a particularly grim ending. What’s the way the story can end that would strike GRRM’s BitterSweet(TM) ending tonally? That last episode was like eating coffee grounds for an hour and a half, so I would think they have a lot of work to do. Also, they seemed to go out of their way this episode to paint Cersei in a very sympathetic light, with Dany’s unfortunate judgmental lapse as contrast. What’s the reason for this? Is it just to highlight that a Targaryen is much more dangerous than anyone else because of the dragons? Idk it felt like a heavy handed bait and switch.
Will Marszalek
2019-05-13 13:08:17 +0000 UTCHi Gents, I always listen to your show episodes last since your takes always feel the most measured and thought out. My question leaves power levels and battle tactics ignored since I believe those are just a product of the difficulty of reconciling rationality and spectacle. If all roads lead to Dany burning KL in the books, and what are your thoughts on what leads her there? Is it the 'betrayals'? Will fAegon have the love of the people? Clearly more than losing a handmaiden and lusty nephew will motivate her, right?
Gritty Reboot
2019-05-13 13:08:05 +0000 UTCWhy does Jon just make this face all episode? https://media1.giphy.com/media/KJHINXxzWX7A4/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cd96a85624a44763699c453&rid=giphy.gif
Matt Furstoss
2019-05-13 13:06:13 +0000 UTCMuch as I took advantage of the emotional vulnerability post episode 2, I'd like to take advantage of a possible fault line between our NotACast pod...cast dads, specifically regarding Dany's sack of KL. While I think we all agree that Dany is going to do something awful to KL, did the setup work for you? Does a sudden snap work compared to a slow descent (which even Aerys II had post-Duskendale inflection point). Do we think Dany's POV will help in this regard where when we're in her head everything sounds rational even as the POVs around her are freaking out? Thanks guys, now please fight for our amusement!
Frank B
2019-05-13 13:03:46 +0000 UTC
