Thrones Review: GoT S08E03: "THE LONG NIGHT" Questions!
Added 2019-04-29 16:46:57 +0000 UTC
Jon and Dany were about to engage in the game of thrones which may have resulted in a clash of kings (or king and queen), but instead we got a storm of swords and a dance with dragons that resulted in A Feast for Crows. (You like that? Yeah, you like that).
We record tonight, but what are your questions for the Battle of Winterfell and beyond?
Comments
1. Turns out we don’t need to worry about Climate Change because Greta Thunberg is going to jump out and stab CO2, the Apocalypse will go away, and all the Deniers will profit and suffer no ill consequences. Do you think this is the over-arching theme of ASOIAF that GRRM intended? 2. Bran sits by a tree in an empty field. Night’s King walks up to him. Arya Assassins Creeds out of the tree and kills him. Do you agree that the sole plot purpose of the Dothraki army, the Unsullied army, the Northern army, the Vale army, the White Walkers, the undead army, undead giants, undead bears, a sorceress, Winterfell, the crypts, trenches, palisades, trebuchets, Valyrian steel swords, dragonglass weapons, fire arakhs, three dragons, a direwolf, resurrected Jon, and Dany, was to make the metaphorical tree look more spectacular? 3. So, will Bronn kill Tyrion or Jaime?
Hunding
2019-04-30 08:20:07 +0000 UTCWhat do you guys think of the tPtWP prophecy now? Just axed by the show? It felt to me like the show did things backwards, with the war for the dawn before the war against Cersei. As always I’m wondering just how you think it all will relate to the books. Keep being awesome. Btw it was great to meet you this weekend Emmett, I’m sad you couldn’t be there Jeff, but who better to keep twitter going in everyone’s absence?
Bword
2019-04-30 03:05:39 +0000 UTCDoes anyone feel that the super neat assasination of the Night King actually justified our slog through the Waif wasteland with Arya on the show?
Ser Daniel the Sneaky Russian
2019-04-30 02:24:27 +0000 UTCWas one of Daenerys' assailants the wight of the Magnar of Thenn?
Ben Twining
2019-04-30 01:45:16 +0000 UTCWas Beric Dondarrions character in the show wasted? I always assumed they kept him around to give someone the kiss of life. I get that he still sacrificed himself for Arya, but it would have been pretty cool to see her die, and then have Beric give her the kiss of life to go on and kill the Night King.
Danielle Joyce
2019-04-30 01:40:57 +0000 UTCFinal thoughts after rewatching, as a stand alone thing, what a f’ing awesome 80 minutes of TV. I have never see anything like it. It falls apart a bit when connecting it to the larger story. But, we need to give it give it credit for pulling off well paced and incredible episode. I going to take my book reader hat off and enjoy it for what it is.
TarthGirl
2019-04-30 00:57:49 +0000 UTCIs Sansa trying to get Tyrion on her side as leverage against Cersei and Danny? Her line about being married but for divided loyalty was a subtle play.
Traci Laird
2019-04-30 00:39:25 +0000 UTCDo you think that was a massacre not of named characters like we expected, but of the foreshadowing and groundwork and theme and consequence of 8 seasons and 5 books? How many things that we'd been shown should matter actually turned out not to?
Hunding
2019-04-29 23:08:10 +0000 UTCHey guys!! Elsie Mark N here! Just wanted to know how you guys felt knowing that Walder Frey and Roose Bolton killed more main characters than the Night’s King and his entire army? I don’t think that the success of the show should be measured by it’s shock value, but this is supposed to be GOT, the show that’s supposed to make you feel like no one is safe, and is supposed to have a bittersweet ending. Of course it’s not over and some could die against Cersei, but I can’t help but feel like they defeated the NK and ended the LN without much of a personal cost at all, and that doesn’t seem very bittersweet to me.
Mark
2019-04-29 22:50:27 +0000 UTCDoes this episode change your predictions for how Mel's story will end? Do you envisage a similar self-sacrifice from her, but trying to save Stannis in Winterfell, post-Shireen burning?
Ian Morley
2019-04-29 22:37:07 +0000 UTCPlease reassure me that the end of ADOS won't be the Stargaryens vs. Cersei and Euron......please?!?
Euan Spence
2019-04-29 21:50:31 +0000 UTCWhy were there 4 zombies in the library instead of 4000?
James R Ward
2019-04-29 21:37:06 +0000 UTCI've noted many people criticizing Winterfell's tactics and agree they would not be suited to a conventional enemy. However, due to their their strategy (lure the Night King towards Bran and strike when he is more vulnerable) and the nature of the undead army a conventional siege defense may not be effective either--in particular, Night King had to be convinced the Others secured a complete victory to expose himself like that. Do you have any insight on a strategy for Winterfell that allows that to happen without completely exposing their entire army outside Winterfell?
Kyle Bagshaw
2019-04-29 21:34:25 +0000 UTCJust one simple question: Is Bran’s story complete now?
Sam Keefe
2019-04-29 21:21:37 +0000 UTCNow that the war against the army of the dead is over, how does the decimated North rebuild, assuming they lost most of their men since they were a bulk of the army. Do they march on Deepwood Motte or summon Lord Glover to Winterfell?
Matt F
2019-04-29 20:33:46 +0000 UTCHello, hsjosephs from twitter here. As i mentioned there, i got this idea that Euron is the Saruman of A Song of Ice and Fire. In the books, Cersei goes down, Aegon goes down and focus primarily is on the long night after that. But when that is over and a very different kind of war has taken place in Winterfell or in the northern riverlands, Euron Greyjoy has taken the iron throne. He didn't make the same mistake as Balon and waited long after Robert's Rebellion to claim his right as king, he takes the iron throne, the old way. So just like Saruman in LoTR, the gang has to deal with Euron in the end of ASOIAF as well. The human evil is the last thing they have to fight. What do you think?
Joseph Pollack
2019-04-29 20:18:14 +0000 UTCHow do you think the rest of the season will go? Will Team Stargeryen use their survivors to ruthlessly bring down Cersei (i.e. Bran informs them of KL preparations; Arya shadow sneaks into the Red Keep; Sansa plots ahead of Cersei; Davos snuggles a small force into KL; that kind of shit)?
Azor Ahai Five
2019-04-29 20:13:10 +0000 UTCIs there any point to the Azor Ahai prophecy now?
Azor Ahai Five
2019-04-29 20:09:52 +0000 UTCWhy didn’t the night king just chill til everyone was dead. They could’ve given us some sort of reason he had to kill bran himself. Steal his power like Highlander or something...?
Matt Furstoss
2019-04-29 20:08:39 +0000 UTCDo you think the Night King being defeated in, well, a single "long night" undermines the meaning of the White Walkers Martin is trying to convey? If the message was supposed to be that squabbling over political power is just a distraction from the true threat that could wipe out all of humanity, then it seems cheap to let Westeros off so easy. Yes, many Dothraki, Unsullied, and Northmen died, but only two castles were destroyed and, for the audience, no tier 1 characters were killed. The White Walkers winning would've been too much, but shouldn't Westeros have paid a greater price for its sins?
Joshua Schwartz
2019-04-29 20:04:50 +0000 UTCMelissandre mentions that Arya will close "Brown, Blue, Green eye". Do you think that she might kill Cersei? I always thought that was Jaime's job but I also thought that killing the night king was Jon's job.
Darren Church
2019-04-29 20:02:35 +0000 UTCMy question is did anyone besides me think for one glorious second that we were going to see a "Daemon Targaryen" moment when Jon jumped onto Viserion's back and went hand to hand with the NK?
Erin
2019-04-29 19:50:15 +0000 UTCSo we kept Melissandre around just for the optics of that charge right? Given Theon was the most significant character to go down, where do you see the purported bitterness? Or will bitter not mean dead? And where the ---- did Ghost go now? Back to the cutting room floor? No more questions but lastly I've long thought that in book world Tyrion and Sansa will end up married and ruling--somewhere, somehow. The relationship too impractical and flawed from the start for GRRM to resist making it work. Episode 3 has me crowing. Accept my presumption or be proven wrong. Y'all are great.
Jason Icerman
2019-04-29 19:49:01 +0000 UTCWe know that George told Dan and Dave something like a "Cliff notes" version of what will happen in the end of ASOIAF. After what we saw last episode, which do you think would be the points we can expect be reflected in the final text? For example: - The big battle will be in Winterfell, - A dragon will die there, - The Army of the Others will be defeated, etc?
Isabel Trujillo Rocha
2019-04-29 19:00:55 +0000 UTCDo you think that the seemingly premature death of the Night King bodes well for Euron in the books (& show)? I think it really sets up Euron as the final endgame villain & that we will be getting our Eldritch Apocalypse. God I really hope so! Also it was great to see Poor Quentyn on LML's preshow Livestream from Ice & Fire con thanks for doing that 💜
Lady Dayne the Twighlight Star
2019-04-29 18:28:48 +0000 UTCWhat exactly was Bran doing when he "left?" I'm sure it wasn't just scouting the battle. Plus, when NK finally arrived at Bran, they stared at each other - I was expecting to flash to the astral plane to see how Bran and NK REALLY faced off.
Jennifer Matthews
2019-04-29 17:53:03 +0000 UTCCould it be any more evident that Dan and Dave are over this whole enterprise and just wanted to wrap this shit up even though very little of this makes sense?
Tom Roe
2019-04-29 17:44:56 +0000 UTCWhen Melisandra lit the Dothraki swords alight, she basically forced them into NOT using their skills as mounted bowmen - I mean, these guys can STAND on horseback and shoot arrows! Seems a waste, but the visual was pretty awesome.
Jennifer Matthews
2019-04-29 17:43:22 +0000 UTCIt’s been theorized that the Night king is a Stark... after this episode do you think it’s possible he was a Targaryen after not dying/burning from dragon fire?
The Prince that was Fresh
2019-04-29 17:38:33 +0000 UTCHa I got what I wanted! I said a while ago that I wanted the NK defeated mid-season to give a few more episodes for the story to do something else, but I didn't really expect it to happen. (Err, that wasn't a question, sorry.)
Matthew Wilson
2019-04-29 17:31:52 +0000 UTCWolves are awesome.... (nywolf.org) Wish we would’ve gotten Nymeria’s pack at winterfell howling as the Stark pack defeated Night King. Maybe the books dive into the wolf pack element a little more. As far as the Stark pack who do you think ends up as the King, Queen, or Warden in the North?
Lord William
2019-04-29 17:31:09 +0000 UTCI was expecting better deaths. Is it really necessary to have Brienne , Pod , Davos, Greyworm , Gendry, Varys to still be around? The deaths of one of the Starks or Lannister’s would’ve given this battle significant weight , it just felt too easy with the characters who died ultimately being insignificant bar maybe Theon.
TheLifeNecrotic
2019-04-29 17:23:57 +0000 UTCI also think this works for the show because we still have (legit) unresolved tension btwn the Lannister siblings, the Cleganes, Jon & Dany, Dany & Sansa, another R + L reveal (to the Northern Lords etc). It would have felt so cheesy to have the NK be defeated in the final episode
Zack Newman
2019-04-29 17:17:38 +0000 UTCPeople already covered a lot of what i was going to ask. the show seems to be prioritizing politics over the magical, a decision dating back to the title of the show. PwwP/AA mythology is a mess, etc. However, one thing they did well was Beric. He contemplated his existence frequently, wondered why he was brought back -- and we ultimately saw why, and it mattered. Great! So, if the Great War is over (and Melisandre's exit suggests as much)...why was Jon brought back?!
Alex Armstrong
2019-04-29 17:14:16 +0000 UTCSo many questions but my biggest one is more broad than this episode. I have no issue with Arya killing NK. It was some what seeded with Melisandre and makes sense for her overall arc. But this makes me question what or who is the PTWP. Is it both Daenerys and Jon seeing as they brought the armies together? Would Melisandre be Lightbringer? I know we are told not all prophecies matter but it seems to me that something the fandom has had such an investment in over for years would pay off bigger. I know books and show will differ to varying degrees and have faith that with 3 long episodes ahead there is a chance to make sense of it, but I’m not sure how. I AM uncomfortable with D&D if this was a change they made as part of a pseudo fan service. “Jon was too obvious” is not a good enough reason to ignore years of lore IF that’s the case. And then I remember HBO has a whole new show about the Long Night and fear they will kneecap a lot of answers so we can tune in since according to them “ it’s not the story we think we know”. Thought?
Sir Way of Course
2019-04-29 17:13:04 +0000 UTCASOIAF is about Ice & Fire. Thrones is about the Throne. It's a great outcome because book readers and show stans both win. Sure the military strategy was dumb. Hey, at least we didn't have a Deus ex Vale Knights situation. The plan was to draw the NK to the weirwood tree to kill him and it fuckin worked! We still have about 4 hours left to see our favorite characters go out in wrenching moments- or not. But we still have a 100% different book version to look forward to! I see zero downside to any of that.
Zack Newman
2019-04-29 17:10:24 +0000 UTCI was prepared for Jon and/or Danny to die saving the world from the others. I just don’t see the show allowing Cersei to take either of them out. Does last night change the calculus on who survives the season? AND . . . I love Arya but am so unsettled about that ending and the show seeming to embrace the idea that this has really been about the iron throne all along, tell me GRRM won’t do this to us?!?!
TarthGirl
2019-04-29 17:05:36 +0000 UTCAlso...some more questions. Does the death of the NK mean winter is over? Do you think Arya will kill the NK in the books? Is there any reason to have the wall anymore?
James Stenoish
2019-04-29 17:02:12 +0000 UTCWith it unlikely that Arya kills the Night King and ending the WW threat in GRRM’s iteration, especially since the Night King is a show invention, is there hope that A Dream of Spring will be quite different from season 8? Do you think the progression of Northern battle vs the others and then southern battle vs TBD will be the same in the book?
BigE9690
2019-04-29 17:01:18 +0000 UTCTo me, this felt like one of many possible ways all of this stuff could go down, so I'm more eager than ever to just get back to the books and watch Martin's vision unfold. To that end, do you feel we'll reach a more satisfying conclusion about the White Walkers and their mythology? The show built them up quite a bit - the symbols on the walls, the spiral, the spiral appearing on the childrens' sleeves, etc - and now they're just gone? Feels a little abrupt. Do you think there is still time and appetite in this season for there to be some Bran / Weirwood astral projecting to uncover more interesting truths? And.... what is the state of magic now? Are the walkers totally gone, meaning the end of the "ice magic?" Does this mean that the world is off-balance with dragons / fire magic still existing?
Sarah W
2019-04-29 17:00:54 +0000 UTCNot being a student of battle tactics, I might be missing something, but....what was the purpose of having the Dothraki, unsullied, and the northern fighters outside the walls where the become enemy combatants once they are killed? Fire and dragon glass are the only ways to kill the wights...shouldn’t there be a ring of fire around winterfell...maybe some wildfire or at least oil or other flammable liquids to burn them?
James Stenoish
2019-04-29 16:58:38 +0000 UTCWhat is Bran's role moving forward?
Sarah W
2019-04-29 16:58:11 +0000 UTCHey guys, given how the existential threat to mankind that was the Others was dealt with fairly quickly in this episode (and in quite a disappointing fashion I might add. No Ice Spiders? WTF?) it seems to me like the show is gearing up for a final confrontation between Jon/Dany and Cersei for the Iron Throne, or maybe even pit Jon against Dany due to the recent relevation of Jon's parentage. It seems to me like the show is missing the point of the book series in that the "game of thrones" doesn't matter when the army of the dead come to wipe out mankind. Do you feel like it was a mistake on the showrunner's part to have the Battle of Winterfell come before the confrontation with Cersei and the Golden Company? To me it feels like Cersei and her political machinations should have been dealt with first with the final battle being against the Others for mankind. Curious to hear what you guys think.
Aslan Christbeard
2019-04-29 16:57:02 +0000 UTCHow much stock should we put in prophecy (AA/TPTWP) now that it’s Arya, and not Jon, who dispatched the NK. From post-episode interview, D&D, “for three years now we’ve know it was going to be Arya who would deliver the fatal blow.” That’s too recent the meeting with GRRM, this is exclusively their own writing then? With no NK in the books I would expect this to be much different, but looking for your take. Thanks and keep up the great work!
Anthony Pelliccio
2019-04-29 16:56:03 +0000 UTCI have SO MANY questions (I legit couldn't sleep last night sitting up and pondering them). Some I'm sure you'll already address without me even asking them, but I'll put them out there anyway. 1. Do you think Arya's role in this battle might have been the third "oh shit" moment? There isn't any leader of the Others in the books that we know of, at least not yet, but do you think that the surprise might have been that Arya has a huge part in defeating the Army of the Dead (rather than Jon and/or Dany)? Or do you think the "oh shit" moment is yet to come? 2. If Arya does have some big role like this in the books, how do you think it fits into the greater Azor Ahai/TPTWP mythology? Is she Azor Ahai? Nissa Nissa? Lightbringer? I've been trying to think of some metaphorical way this would all make sense (she was born around the time of the Greyjoy Rebellion, right, so...salt and smoke, or something? Or maybe by giving her Needle and helping set her on the path that eventually led her to becoming No One, Jon "killed" her, making her Nissa Nissa, or...something something?). You guys are smart, share your ideas! 3. Beric's role in the show and the reason he was brought back so many times was apparently to save Arya. Since he's already dead in the books, do you think his sole purpose was to bring back LSH? Will LSH have to sacrifice herself to save Arya? (She is looking for her after all). Is this just such a huge amalgamation of plot lines that it's totally impossible to extrapolate to the books at this point? 4. Most people's opinions I've heard seem to agree that Cersei will probably be dead by this point of the narrative in the books. If in the books, the living do defeat the Army of the Dead and then have to move on to an endgame human villain, who do you think it will be if not Cersei? Team fAegon? Euron? 5. For a moment in the battle, I thought that both the Dothraki and the Unsullied would basically be sacrificing themselves so more white people could get behind the castle walls to hopefully survive, so I was glad to see that the Unsullied at least were able to retreat inside the walls. Considering the commentary on how GRRM has sort of failed to flesh out a lot of his Essosi characters, do you think this kind of indiscriminate slaughter of all of the Dothraki is likely in the books? Has Dany basically just led an entire race of people to their deaths? I guess that conveniently means Dany won't have to worry about integrating them into the realm, but... 6. It looks like both dragons made it through the fight, albeit with some scrapes and bruises. I've often heard the opinion that the dragons will all be dead by the end of the novels. Does this outcome affect any thoughts you have about whether or not dragons could survive until the end? I suppose Cersei could still kill the dragons, but that would seem a bit weak after the NK was unable to do so with a dragon at his disposal (in my opinion).
champagnerain
2019-04-29 16:55:46 +0000 UTCIs the show endgame now political while books will be more magical? Also, did show just kill Azor Ahai plot... At least from the show perspective? Thanks!!
Mike Edwards
2019-04-29 16:54:35 +0000 UTCDo you believe the metaphysical threat is over? If so, are we still heading towards a “new world” where magic won’t exist? If so, um.. how are we getting there?
Kyle W Ross
2019-04-29 16:50:00 +0000 UTCWe got off pretty light on deaths for the battle, are you surprised by that? Or by the people who did/did not die?
Taylor Downs
2019-04-29 16:48:52 +0000 UTC
