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Episode 81: A CLASH OF KINGS, TYRION II: "The Butchers" SHOW NOTES!

Added 2019-09-30 14:00:02 +0000 UTC

Hello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish. 

And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn.          

Welcome to the eighty-first episode of the Not A Cast, titled: “The Butchers: An Analysis of ACOK, Tyrion II,” in which Tyrion informs Janos Slynt that the company’s moving in a different direction, but they’ll be sure to keep his resume on file.

Emmett intros Clint

Clint says hi

This episode is brought to you by our Small Council: 

Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show. Anything and everything!

Question

Lady Amparo C, a Sworn Sword patron, asks:

Hi! question for the show
when listening to the Ep on Tyrion I, I noticed y’all mentioned how Ned is the protagonist of book one, and Tyrion of book two. I was wondering who you two would say are the protagonists of the rest of the books? I guess Cersei could be the protagonist of a feast for crows, but the other two have so many main characters it’s hard for me to even think of just one (especially with dance since Jon, Dany, and Tyrion are all super prominent in that book)
Thanks in advance for answering this! Really love what y’all are doing with this show, and enjoying the clash eps so far!

Synopsis

Tyrion Lannister watches as Janos Slynt, an icky former peasant and son of a butcher, laughs like a man chopping meat. Tyrion asks Janos if he wants more wine, and Janos is like fuck yeah. Pour the wine, bitches. He asks, all peasant-like in Tyrion’s mind, whether the wine is from the Arbor, but Tyrion tells him, quite aristocratically in my mind, that it’s a Dornish wine. 

Janos and Tyrion are dining alone in the Small Hall in a romantic candlelit setting. Tyrion comments that this Dornish wine is rich unlike most Dornish wines, and Janos says “Yeah, it’s rich. Just like me. I’m rich, bitch.” Then Janos goes on to call Tyrion a lord, but Tyrion corrects and says he ain’t a lord (though he sure wants to be one. We’ll revisit that come ASOS). Just call him Tyrion. So, Janos Slynt says sure, whatever, and he continues to gulp down wine, letting it dribble down his chin and onto his doublet.

He was wearing a cloth-of-gold half cape,fastened with a miniature spear, its point enameled in dark red. And he was well and truly drunk.

Tyrion, though, is not drunk. He’s been drinking temperately for what seems like the first time in the published narrative. He thinks about how he had brought the best chef in King’s Landing into his service and his chef had made quite the exquisite meal (oxtail soup, summer greens tossed with pecans, grapes, red fennel, crumbled cheese, hot crab pie, spiced squash and quails drowned in butter - delish), but he had ensured that every course came with new wine offerings for Lord Slynt. Janos says he might take Tyrion’s cook into his service when he heads up to Harrenhal, and Tyrion says that wars have been started for less than that. Regardless, Tyrion has a line of inquiry about this whole Harrenhal business.

“You’re a bold man to take Harrenhal for your seat. Such a grim place, and huge … costly to maintain and some say cursed as well.”

Janos says he ain’t afraid curses and shit, and he’s a brave boy, just like Tyrion who Janos senses is brave despite being small. Tyrion says thanks, and would you mayhaps like some more wine, Lord Janos? No, he wouldn’t … yes, he would. Tyrion fills his glass to the brim and then brings up some more business.

“I have been glancing over the names you put forward to take your place as Commander of the City Watch.”

Janos says, yeah, those are the best boys you can find to lead the City Watch in my absence, especially that Allar Deem. So loyal. The loyalest. Make him your commander of the City Watch, Janos says. But Tyrion has a different idea.

“I had been considering Ser Jacelyn Bywater. He’s been captain on the Mud Gate for three years, and he served with valor during Balon Greyjoy’s Rebellion. King Robert knight him at Pyke. And yet his name does not appear on your list.”

Lord Slynt drinks some more and is like, Bywater is fine. He’s so totally FINE. But he’s so rigid with a moral code. You don’t want that type of bro leading the City Watch, Tyrion. Pick Allar Deem instead. He has no moral compass. He’ll be great!

But Tyrion thinks that Allar isn’t loved in the streets. Didn’t he, y’know, have some trouble at a brothel recently? Slynt says that, yeah, he’s had some issues, but it was the woman’s fault. Girls, amirite? Allar told her to get fucking lost, but she didn’t.

“Still … mothers and children, he might have expected she’d try to save the babe.” Tyrion smiled. “Have some of this cheese, it goes splendidly with the wine. Tell me, why did you choose Deem for that unhappy task?”

Slynt’s all like, weren’t you just listening to me? Dude’s got my moral compass. He was perrrrfect for the role of killing a baby and her sex worker mother.

“I suppose that’s so,” said Tyrion, hearing “only some whore” and thinking of Shae, and Tysha long ago, and all the other women who had taken his coin and seed over the years.

Slynt goes on oblivious at Tyrion’s sudden turn in mood, talking about how the cheese is sharp and how Tyrion should select Allar Deem, but then Tyrion floats a trial balloon:

“Whoever the king names will not have an easy time stepping into your armor, I can tell. Lord Mormont faces the same problem.”

Janos, an idiot, isn’t sure whether Tyrion is referring to Maege Mormont, but Tyrion corrects that he’s thinking of Elsie Jeor Mormont from the Night’s Watch. And then Tyrion asks Janos to imagine, just ... imagine how great the need of the Night’s Watch is. And then, again, we’re in the realm of imagination here, just imagine that you and Allar Deem end up at the Night’s Watch. Wouldn’t be crazy!? You know … in a pure hypothetical?

Janos roars, saying there’s small chance of that, but Tyrion says that life is strange. Eddard Stark didn’t think he was walking to his death on Baelor’s Sept. Hell, even Varys was surprised at that. So weird, bro?

Lord Janos laughed so hard his gut shoot, “The Spider,” he said. “Knows everything, they say. Well, he didn’t know that.”
“How could he?” Tyrion put the first hint of a chill in his tone. “He had helped persuade my sister that Stark should be pardoned on the condition that he take the black.”

Janos gets all twitchy, but then he says that Joffrey ordered it done -- to which, Tyrion is like, “Dude, he’s thirteen years old.” But Janos insists that the age of the king doesn’t matter. The king be the king.

So, Tyrion asks for Janos’ sigil clasp pinning his cape, and Janos reluctantly hands it over. 

“We have goldsmiths in Lannisport who do better work,” Tyrion opined. “The red enamel blood is a shade much, if you don’t mind my saying. Tell me, my lord, did you drive the spear into the man’s back yourself, or did you only give the command.”

Janos’s bald spot gets beet-red, and for this single instant, I sympathize with Janos given my totally non-existent bald spot going red after a bout of lawn-mowing. 

Ahem.

Janos says that he only gave the command, and he would totally do it again as Ned Stark was a traitor. He even tried to buy Janos. The fuckin’ nerve of Lord Stark.

“Little dreaming that you had already been sold.”
Slynt slammed down his wine cup. “Are you drunk? If you think I will sit here and have my honor questioned …”
“What honor is that? I do admit that you made a better bargain than Ser Jacelyn. A lordship and a castle for a spear thrust in the back, and you didn’t even need to thrust to spear.”

Tyrion flicks the pin back at Janos, and Lord Slynt, who as I will always remind people every time he appears in the narrative, will get his frog-faced head chopped off by Jon in ADWD, gets all blustery, not liking Tyrion’s tone of voice. And how he’s the Lord of Harrenhal and part of the small council. Who the hell are you Tyrion Lannister … Oh. Oh.

Tyrion cocked his head sideways. “I think you know quite well who I am. How many sons do you have?
“What are my sons to you, dwarf?”
“Dwarf?” His anger flashed. “You should have stopped at Imp. I am Tyrion of House Lannister, and someday, if you have the sense the gods gave a sea slug, you will drop to your knees in thanks that it was me you had to deal with, and no my lord father. Now, how many sons do you have?”

Tyrion gets a good look of fear in Janos eyes as the butcher lord tells Tyrion that he has three sons and a daughter. So, Tyrion tells Janos that his kids are going to be fine. The youngest sons will become Lannister squires and maybe knights. The oldest will inherit the lordship title, but lol, not fuckin’ Harrenhal, you peasant. He’ll also need to make marriage arrangements for your daughter. But that leaves the question as to what Tyrion plans to do with Janos.

“The carrack Summer’s Dream sails on the morning tide. Her master tells me she will call at Gulltown, the Three Sisters, the isle of Skagos, and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. When you see Lord Commander Mormont, give him my fond regards, and tell him that I have not forgotten the needs of the Night’s Watch. I wish you long life and good service, my lord.”

Janos realizes that he’s not about to get executed; so, he gets all jaw-thrusty and yells about how Joffrey is going to hear about this, and how many friends he has. He rises from the table and starts walking out of the small hall, throwing open the door and finding a familiar face waiting for him.

“Lord Slynt,” Tyrion called out, “I believe you know Ser Jacelyn Bywater, our new Commander of the City Watch. 

Jacelyn says they’ve been waiting for Janos, and he’s to be escorted (due to it not being safe which lol, you’re so bad at your job, Janos) to the docks.

Once Janos is out of the room, Tyrion gives Jacelyn a parchment with the names of six others who need to get aboard that ship for the Wall. But Tyrion has a very special surprise for a very special boy who will be going to the Wall:

“There one. Deem. Tell the captain it would not be taken amiss if that one should happen to be swept overboard before they reach Eastwatch.”
“I’m told those northern waters are very storm, my lord.” Ser Jacelyn bowed and took his leave, his cloak rippling behind him. He trod (And I love this) on Slynt’s cloth of gold cape on his way.

Tyrion spends some time alone sipping at the wine as servants clear the table. When all the dishes are out of the way, none other than Lord Varys comes gliding into the hall.

“Oh sweetly done, my good lord.”
“Then why do I have this bitter taste in my mouth? I told them to throw Allar Deem into the sea. I am sorely tempted to do the same with you.”
“You might be disappointed by the result. The storms come and go, the waves crash overhead, the big fish eat the little fish, and I keep on paddling.”

Varys asks for a cup of wine, and Tyrion waves at him to get some. Sipping wine together, Tyrion states that Cersei was the one behind the murder of the children in the brothels, and Varys titters, letting Tyrion know that Varys knew. Tyrion accuses Varys of not being honest with him, and Varys says well, yeah, Cersei is your sister. I’m not going to accuse your sister of being a fucking murderer. C’mon, Tyrion. But can we, like, put this aside, and then you forgive me?

“No,” Tyrion snapped. “Damn you. Damn her.” He could not touch Cersei, he knew. Not yet, not even if he’d wanted to, and he was far from certain that he did. Yet it rankled, to sit here and make a mummer’s show of justice by punishing the sorry likes of Janos Slynt and Allar Deem, while his sister continued on her savage course. 

Tyrion warns Varys to tell him everything that he knows going forward, and Varys says, yeah, no. He knows way, way too much. Tyrion counters that Varys didn’t know enough to save this child, and Varys says well … he didn’t think the queen would find a baby and a sex worker much of a threat. 

“She was Robert’s,” Tyrion said bitterly. “That was enough for Cersei, it would seem.”
“Yes. It is grievous sad. I must blame myself for the poor sweet babe and her mother, who was so young and loved the king.”

Tyrion wonders if the girl really loved Robert, and then because it’s Tyrion, he turns that question on himself. Did Shae or Tysha really love him, sex workers that they are? Tyrion’s not sure if he wants the answer to that question. He thinks back to Tysha, thinking of the story he told Bronn and his fantasy life with her, remembering how they had made love, and even then, the girl just wanted to serve Tyrion. But Tyrion told Tysha she served him best in bed. And she was upset by that. Girls and their lizard brains, amirite fellahs?

Tyrion starts to reach for his win again, but then he remembers Janos and pushes the wine aside.

“It does seem my sister was telling the truth about Stark’s death. We have my nephew to thank for that madness.”
“King Joffrey gave the command. Janos Slynt and Ser Ilyn Payne carried it out swiftly, without hesitation …”
“... almost as if they had expected it. Yes, we have been over this ground before, without profit. A folly.”

Varys, probably internally sighing over how he’ll have to make do with Tyrion, says that now the City Watch is “in hand”, and there’ll be no more of Joffrey and Cersei’s shittery, but Varys is curious about whether the Lannister red cloaks will also keep from indulging in more psychopathic behavior. Tyrion says that they probably will. The officers are loyal to Casterly Rock and Tywin, and Tyrion is here acting in Tywin’s place. All the same, there’s only a hundred crimson cloaks in King’s Landing and six thousand gold cloaks. And they so totally have the gold cloaks in hand, right, Varys?

“You will find Ser Jacelyn to be courageous, honorable, obedient … and most grateful.”
“To whom, I wonder.” Tyrion did not trust Varys, though there was no denying his value. He knew things beyond a doubt. “Why are you so helpful, my lord Varys?” he asked, studying the man’s soft hands, the bald powdered face, the slimy little smile.

Well, according to Varys, he’s in it for king, realm and Tyrion. Sure, bud. And you served Jon Arryn and Ned Stark the same way, right? Welllll … he tried to serve them, but he was saddened (probably not) and horrified (probably so) by their deaths.

“Think how I feel. I’m like to be next.”
“Oh, I think not,” Varys said , swirling the wine in his cup. “Power is a curious thing, my lord. Perchance you have considered the riddle I posed you that day in the inn.”

Tyrion had been thinking about the riddle -- you know the one: the king, the priest, the rich man, who lives and who dies. Who does the sellsword obey? Tyrion thinks there’s no real answer or too many answers. But Varys wants Tyrion to think a little harder about it. He reminds Tyrion that the sellword is no one in particular. He only has a sword in his hand. The power of life and death, Tyrion interjects.

“Just so … yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power? Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father?”
“Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords.”
“Then these other swordsmen have the true power. Or do they? Whence came their swords? Why do they obey?” Varys smiled. “Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law. Yet that day on the steps of Baelor’s Sept, our godly High Septon and the lawful Queen Regent and your ever-so-knowledgeable servant were as powerless as any cobbler or cooper in the crowd. Who truly killed Eddard Stark, do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or … another?
Tyrion cocked his head sideways. “Did you mean to answer your damned riddle, or only to make my headache worse?”
Varys smiled. “Here then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”
“So power is a mummer’s trick.”
“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

What a fuckin’ scene. Had to read it in full.

Tyrion thinks he’s growing fond of Varys. And sure, he may kill Varys, but he’ll feel real feelings over it. Varys says that’s high praise. And then Tyrion tries looking into Varys soul.

“What are you, Varys?” Tyrion found he truly wanted to know. “A spider, they say.”
“Spies and informers are seldom loved, my lord. I am but a loyal servant of the realm.”

Tyrion’s all like, “Sure, bud.” But then he talks a bit about his own status as a halfman, reflecting on the gods being kinder to him than Varys. At least he gets to sex the fuck out of Shae. (Is that weird phrasing? It’s weird. I know.) And Shae wasn’t his first (or last). But Varys can’t do any of that.

“You have no such hope to sustain you. Dwarfs are a jape of the gods … but men make eunuchs. Who cut you, Varys? When and why? Who are you truly?”

And I just love, love how George describes Varys’ reaction. So!

The eunuch’s smile never flickered, but his eyes glittered with something that was not laughter. “You are kind to ask, my lord, but my tale is long and sad, and we have treasons to discuss.”

Varys then goes on to talk about some treasons which I’ll bullet point here for brevity sake as I know this synopsis is getting long:

With that, Varys departs the scene, and Tyrion sits alone watching the candle burn low. He thinks about how Cersei will take the news of Janos being sent to the NW, musing that Cersei will be upset, but she won’t be able to do anything about it. Besides, Tyrion has his own clansmen guards about him and a bunch of sellswords recruited by Bronn. So, he was safe.

Doubtless Eddard Stark thought the same.

Finally in the middle of the night, Tyrion leaves the small hall, bound for his solar. Waiting for him is Bronn. Bronn asks after Janos, and Tyrion says he’s off for the Wall. Then he thinks that Varys wants Tyrion to believe he replaced Joffrey’s man with his own, but it was more likely he replaced one of Littlefinger’s men with one of Varys’.

Bronn starts to tell Tyrion about Timett killing someone, but Tyrion’s already heard about it. But Tyrion, you gotta know the details. Shit was cray! But Tyrion isn’t about hearing details of Timett pinning a man’s hands to a table with a dagger. His stomach is upset. Instead, Tyrion asks Bronn to tell him about his recruitment efforts. So, Bronn says he’s got three more sellswords in his employ. Tyrion asks how Bronn selects them, and Bronn smiles and says that he looks ‘em over, questions them, asks them some resume questions, and then he gives them the chance to kill him before Bronn does the same with them. Tyrion’s all like, uh, but what if they kill you, Bronn?

“He’ll be the one you’ll want to hire.”
Tyrion, feeling his liquor and feeling exhausted looks at Bronn.
“Tell me, Bronn. If I told you to kill a babe … an infant girl, say, still at her mother’s breast … would you do it? Without question?
“Without question? No.” The sellsword rubbed thumb and forefinger together. “I’d ask how much.”
And why would I ever need your Allar Deem, Lord Slynt? Tyrion thought. I have a hundred of my own. He wanted to laugh; he wanted to weep; most of all, he wanted Shae.

And that is ACOK, Tyrion II. I’m amazed at George’s work here, and I’m glad we’re getting past our introductory “Previously in ASOIAF” chapters. This may be my perception, but it’s in those second chapters that GRRM really starts digging into the thematics at play with his POV characters -- thematics that will dominate the rest of their book arcs.

What did you guys think?

Depth

As we said when we covered Tyrion I a few weeks back, that’s a huge, sprawling chapter with a lot going on. Tyrion II is much easier to take in, focused at the start on the question of Janos Slynt, but that doesn’t mean there’s less to talk about. George does a great job of using Tyrion firing Janos as a launching pad to talk more broadly about this book’s overarching subject: power and where it comes from. Tyrion is showing off how he understands his position better than Ned Stark ever did, but he’s also becoming aware of his limitations in “doing justice,” some of which come from outside his growing coalition (Cersei) and some of which come from within (Bronn). It’s a great chapter to go over with a legally oriented mind...hence Lord Clint Esq!

Clint opening thoughts- Love to have a chance to discuss what is one of my favorite chapters in the series and not-coincidentally one of the most lawyerly chapters as well. We have basically three parts. Part one is Tyrion the inquisitor, using an artfully constructed set of questions to get Janos Slynt to incriminate himself, then using Janos’ guilt to extract even more useful information before sending him on his way. It’s like a good deposition- Here I am asking you about this innocuous subject (who should take over as captain of the city watch) but really I’m getting at a much deeper question- your complicity in moral crimes. And then in the second part we get what I consider to be George’s central philosophical thesis on the nature of power in the conclusion to Varys’ Riddle. I’ll have much more on this later but one way to look at Varys’ Riddle is similar to Occams or Hanlon’s Razors, the Riddle is George’s Razor. You can use it as a tool to apply when determining who will win a struggle for power. When presented with a choice between two or more claimants for power all things being equal the one who ultimately wins will typically be the one who more people believe in, and we’ll talk about some examples later. And then in the third part we get the coda, where Varys gives Tyrion various pieces of information about potential treasons to test whether or not Tyrion gets the lesson of the Riddle. And the answer is, essentially, Tyrion doesn’t get it... yet. 

This is a “fun” chapter. Is fun the right word? I don’t know. But from what I can tell, George had a lot of fun writing Tyrion II from ACOK as well as all of Tyrion’s chapters in ASOS. As Adam Whitehead, AKA Werthead, wrote in 2015:

When A Clash of Kings was completed, hundreds of pages were left over for A Storm of Swords, including (according to some reports) Tyrion Lannister's complete story arc for the latter.

So, in the span of essentially two years between the publication of AGOT and ACOK, GRRM wrote an astounding 26 Tyrion chapters. So, the question is why? Why was George so motivated to write so much Tyrion in so short a timespan? And I think the answer is found in this chapter. As Emmett and Clint pointed out, this chapter revolves around the question of power, its meaning, purpose and utility. I love Clint’s idea of George’s Razor. He’s invested in political philosophy, and he utilizes the vehicle of epic fantasy to talk about power.

I’ve been reading The Hobbit to my youngest daughter, and I love how charming and innocent Tolkien’s story is. It’s a lovely read and a fun adventure story. George, himself, is a fan of Tolkien, but he’s also a critical fan of Tolkien. He’s repeatedly stated that his impetus in writing ASOIAF was sourced to exploring the philosophical and policy sides of conducting politics in epic fantasy. And it’s in that interrogation, found most especially in this chapter, that George lays the questions and moral quandaries that transcend the genre and force us to think about power in our own world.

This is such a great chapter.

Tyrion cocked his head sideways. "I think you know quite well who I am. How many sons do you have?"

"What are my sons to you, dwarf?"

Foreshadowing/Groundwork

Immediately after the chapter in which Catelyn lays out the legend of Harrenhal, we get arguably our first present-day incarnation of the Harrenhal curse with Lord Slynt’s downfall

“A shadow on the wall … yet shadows can kill.” We’ll see the proof of that at Storm’s End!

We’ll see more of the “sudden plague of holy men” as we go through ACOK, converted into the sparrow movement come AFFC. Fits the rising magical/religious tide of the book as a whole.

Tyrion’s refusal to act about the holy men or Balon Swann’s joke also foreshadows that Tyrion steadfastly refuses to internalize the lesson of Varys’ Riddle until at least ADWD (if at all). Tyrion’s power is extremely precarious and yet he goes out of his way to piss off Cersei & other small council members, then disregards the whispers he hears about commoners and other lords alike insulting him and blaming him for various problems. He doesn’t do the things that Machiavelli tells him he should, and it absolutely burns him later.

And as my twitter friend Rohanne pointed out, this chapter also clearly foreshadows some statements from Melisandre’s chapter in ADWD, and how she looks at Jon Snow’s failure to learn the lesson Varys teaches. 

“Perhaps he did not think himself worthy of the King's Tower, or perhaps he did not care. That was his mistake, the false humility of youth that is itself a sort of pride. It was never wise for a ruler to eschew the trappings of power, for power itself flows in no small measure from such trappings.

…

Melisandre made it a point to keep a pair of guards about her everywhere she went. It sent a certain message. The trappings of power.”

Also, do we think the line Tyrion says about how Shae wants to be with him and help him more means that at this stage in the game she’s maybe working with someone else? Tywin? Varys?

Theory/Discussion

How do our perceptions of Varys’ riddle change coming back knowing his answer: namely, Young Griff? What do we think about that answer? Does it sync with our own understanding of power? Does it make us think less or more of Varys? What about Tyrion’s role in YG’s story?

Varys’ riddle in action as seen in the ADWD Epilogue:

“Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

Young Griff image vs reality

Varys’ supervillain monologue is all bullshit. But that’s kind of the point right? Power resides where people believe it resides. And if Varys can craft a good narrative around this kid, then why can’t he be king. If Varys can make this kid out to be Rhaegar’s son when he isn’t, then he’ll do it.

Is this where we talk about how this chapter confirms that Varys is a merman?

Conclusion


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