Episode 19: A GAME OF THRONES, JON III: "Lord Snow" Show Notes!

Hello and welcome to the Not A Cast … podcast: the one true chapter-by-chapter podcast going through A Song of Ice and Fire one chapter a week. I’m one of your hosts Jeff better known as BryndenBFish. 

And I’m your other host Emmett, better known as PoorQuentyn. 

Welcome to our nineteenth episode of the Not A Cast entitled: “Lord Snow”: An Analysis of AGOT, Jon III,” in which our hero checks his privilege and we are introduced at last to the Wall. This episode is brought to you all by our Lords Commander Mark N, Timothy W and Hayden J. Thank you, gentlemen!

Spoiler warning: All published books - 5 novels, 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, histories, interviews, and TWOW sample chapters, as well as Game of Thrones the TV show, anything and everything!

News/Questions

Game of Thrones: Age of Heroes show: thoughts/takes

• Cite Maester Monthly and the LML/Ashaya and Aziz from HoW/JoeTheMagician livestream reaction thing on youtube.

Ser Thomas H, one of our sworn swords asks: 

I just wanted to start by saying I love your podcast and to keep up the great work. I actually had a question as a new sworn sword patron. I was actually discussing asoiaf with my friends and we had an interesting idea that Stannis may burn more than just his daughter. That if he got ahold of Rickon which seems likely and that he already holds both Asha and Theon. That he may sacrifice three people with Kings blood to stop the Others . I like this idea as it put Jon against Stannis and may even be a spark for a 2nd battle of Winterfell. I just wondering if you guys thought this idea holds any validly to it or if you guys think it’s totally bogus. 

Synopsis

Private Jon Snow beats the shit out of Private Grenn in the Castle Black courtyard. Only when Private Jon hits Private Grenn’s wrist with his blunted sword, does grizzled Drill Sergeant Thorne, er, Ser Alliser Thorne call the skirmish to a halt. Grenn complains that Jon broke his wrist, but Alliser retorts that no, Jon opened Grenn’s skull and cut off his wrist or would have, had the boys been using live steel.

But Jon is tired. He leans against his sword, and Alliser tells him that it’s a longsword, not a damn old man cane. And Lord Snow, are your legs hurting? Jon hates the Lord Snow moniker that Ser Alliser hung on Jon the first day Jon showed up in the practice yard. But no, Jon’s legs aren’t hurting. Alliser walks over and demands the truth. “I’m tired,” Jon admits. “What you are is weak,” Alliser tells Jon. When Jon protests that he won the battle, Alliser retorts that no, you didn’t win, Jon. Grenn lost. 

Dismissed, Jon heads back to the Castle Black armory alone and thinks sullenly that he doesn’t have any friends. He thinks about the people he’s training with and thinks of all their deficiencies. Jon concludes that the more time he spends around these boys, the more he despises them. Gee, wonder why you don’t have any friends, Jon.

Inside the armory, Jon strips off his boiled leather, armor and woolens and feels a chill rippling through his body. In a few years, he would forget what it felt like to be warm. No one had told him what the Wall would be like; no one, but Tyrion Lannister. Even his uncle Benjen had abandoned familiarity with Jon once they got the Wall. 

Three days after Jon’s arrival, Jon had heard that Benjen was leading men north of the Wall to search for Ser Waymar Royce and Will. Jon begged to go with his uncle, but Benjen refused him. 

“This is not Winterfell. On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns. You’re no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you.” 

When the party departs and Jon comes to watch them leave, Ben again tells Jon no. And that they’ll speak when they return. Spoilers: they won’t.

Sullen, Jon begins to miss his family. Bran, Robb, Rickon, even Sansa. But he misses Arya most of all. What he wouldn’t give to be able to muss up her hair again. His pleasant and sad memories are interrupted by the entry of Grenn and three of his friends into the armory. 

“You broke my wrist, bastard.”

“I’ll break the other one for you if you ask nicely,” Jon responds.

When Jon reaches for his sword, the four jump him. Toad, one of his assailants, complains “You make us look bad. “You looked bad before I ever met you.” More insults, more shouts. But when they start taunting Jon about his mom, he wrenches free and karates the shit out of them before Donal Noye’s voice rings over the ruckus. “STOP THIS NOW!”

Jon’s would-be murderers accuse Jon of … attempting to murder them. Noye tells them to go get patched up by maester Aemon, but not you, Jon. You’re staying here. Donal Noye then proceeds to dress Jon Snow down, and it’s So. Goddamn. Good. First addressing the insults to Jon’s mother, Donal Noye tells Jon that nothing they say can make or unmake who she was. Jon then thinks of his mother, and it’s sad. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn and her eyes were kind.

Next, Jon complains how cold it is which results in Donal Noye reading him the riot act: Yeah, it’s cold, Jon and mean and hard. That’s the Wall. It isn’t a fairytale. Oh and by the way, you’re here for life if you take your vows. (hmmm… foreshadowing? We’ll talk that piece later)

We then get some history of Donal Noye in Jon’s internal monologue. In a past life, Noye was the armorer for House Baratheon, crafting Robert’s warhammer and losing an arm at the Siege of Storm’s end fighting and smithing for Stannis Baratheon before joining the Night’s Watch as the Castle Black armorer.

When we cut back to the conversation, Donal warns Jon that his life may be cut prematurely short if he keeps being a bully. A bully? Jon is furious at the “unjust” accusation. Donal then tells Jon the truth: he’s not only beaten all of them in the courtyard, he’s humiliated them, acted like a little lordling. Does that make you proud? Donal asks.

It did, and that gives Jon pause. And Jon, didn’t you train with a master of arms at Winterfell? Doesn’t that put you at an advantage? Yeah, yeah it does. Donal then tells Jon that these boys all came from brothels, taverns, decks and alleys. They had no master at arms, no retinue of soldiers to train with. You’re beating people who are at a massive disadvantage to you, Lord Snow. 

“Don’t call me that! I never … I didn’t think.” 

“Best you start thinking,” Donal warns him. “That or sleep with a dagger by your bed. Now go.”

And with that, BAMF Donal Noye sends Jon away. Outside, Jon catches sight of the Wall and sees the light shining against it, making it feel alive. But this is the end of the world or so it seems to say to Jon. Atop the Wall, catapults, cranes, men of the Watch manning the Wall. And if the Wall fell, Jon knew that the world fell with it.

Makes you wonder what lies beyond, Tyrion Lannister says behind Jon. And why is it that when one man builds a wall, the next man immediately needs to know what’s on the other side?

Good question. Jon says there’s nothing special beyond except for the mysteries of the haunted forest, Mance Rayder’s wildlings and potentially the Others. And grumpkins and snarks. Let us not forget them, Lord Snow.

Jon growls at Tyrion not to call him Lord Snow. Tyrion raises his eyebrows and tells Jon Let them see that their words can cut you, and you’ll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, make it your own. Then they can’t hurt you with it anymore. Sage advice, Tyrion. Perhaps take some of your own advice when you become acting Hand of the King in ACOK. 

Anyhow, the pair head off to grab some chow at the common hall. Tyrion asks after Ghost. Jon reports that he’s chained him up in the old stables for the moment, but most of the time he sleeps with Jon in Hardin’s Tower. That’s the one with the broken battlement, no? It is, but no one cares where you sleep at Castle Black. Once the fortress housed 5000 fighting men, but there’s only about 500 men here now. 

The conversation shifts to Benjen. He’s been away for too long. There’ve been a lot of rangers disappearing north of the Wall. That’s unsettling. Anyways, they enter the hall, grab a bowl and sit away from the rest of the watchmen when Ser Alliser Thorne approaches ordering Jon to visit Lord Commander Jeor Mormont. Is it Benjen? Did he return home safely? 

When I say jump, you don’t question why. You say how high, Ser Alliser sort-of replies. Tyrion tells Alliser to tell him what’s up or the court will hear about what he’s been doing up here. Alliser relents. It’s not about Benjen. It’s about Bran. 

Oh no, not Bran. “Jon, I’m truly sorry,” Tyrion tells Jon putting a hand on Jon’s arm. Jon rushes up to the Lord Commander Mormont’s room and burst into the Old Bear’s chambers. Bran, what does it say about Bran? Mormont hands the letter to Jon, and Jon reads what Robb has written. He begins crying. He woke up. The gods gave him back. He did wake up, but Mormont tells Jon to read on. Bran is crippled now. But Jon can’t find it in himself to be upset about that … at least not yet.

Jon races back down to the common hall, yelling about Bran going to live. He grabs Tyrion and twirls the dwarf around, shouting over and over that Bran will live. Jon notices a number of watch recruits and watchmen gathered around him. He sees Grenn there, and he goes to him. 

“Stay away from me now, you bastard,” Grenn replies. 

“I’m sorry about your wrist. Robb used the same move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells, but yours must be worst. Look, if you want, I can show you how to defend that,” Jon tells Grenn. 

Ser Alliser overhears Jon’s words, and being a big jerk, he says, “Lord Snow wants to take my place now. I’d have an easier time teaching a wolf to juggle than you will training this aurochs.” 

“I’ll take that wager, Ser Alliser. I’d love to see Ghost juggle.”

Everyone gasps at Jon’s audacity, and then Tyrion laughs and then others laugh. Even Grenn joins in the laughter. But not Ser Alliser. Oh no. 

“That was a grievous error, Lord Snow,” Ser Alliser says in the acid tones of an enemy

And that is AGOT, Jon III. Definitely my favorite Jon chapter so far in AGOT. What do you think Emmett? Your favorite Jon chapter so far?

Depth

Absolutely it is!! My favorite Jon chapters in AGOT are the last few with the wights and what follows, but of the earlier ones, this is definitely the best. That's because it shows GRRM testing Jon Snow to see if he’s worthy of protagonist status beyond being The Emo Chosen One we’ve gotten to know in his previous two chapters. The central question is what Jon’s values are, the proper heroic values being not strength nor speed nor skill at arms, but rather generosity, humility, and a desire to lift up the downtrodden. It sows the seeds for Jon becoming a leader by first establishing what GRRM thinks he needs to learn before becoming a leader, and so Jon III is a vital chapter for talking about the politics of ASOIAF and what the author intends for us to take away about the social structures of the world he’s created. If Catelyn IV was about establishing the status quo, Jon III is about the spark of inspiration to change the world. 

• Love how GRRM structures this chapter to educate us as well as Jon
  • First we see Jon as a badass in the yard, framed positively 
    • “The song of swords" in the opening line primes us for exciting combat 
    • Grenn is not only older and bigger than Jon, but calls him “the bastard,” sparking our sympathy
    • Alliser is presented as a bad-tempered bully refusing to give Jon credit…
      • Thorne strode toward him, crisp black leathers whispering faintly as he moved. He was a compact man of fifty years, spare and hard, with grey in his black hair and eyes like chips of onyx. “The truth now,” he commanded.
        
        “I’m tired,” Jon admitted. His arm burned from the weight of the longsword, and he was starting to feel his bruises now that the fight was done.
        
        “What you are is weak.”
        
        “I won.”
        
        “No. The Aurochs lost.”
    • ...and furthering the stigma.
      • “That is a longsword, not an old man’s cane,” Ser Alliser said sharply. “Are your legs hurting, Lord Snow?”
        
        Jon hated that name, a mockery that Ser Alliser had hung on him the first day he came to practice. The boys had picked it up, and now he heard it everywhere. He slid the longsword back into its scabbard. “No,” he replied.
  • Then we get our first taste of life at Castle Black, seemingly justifying Jon’s angst 
    • It's cold, both metaphorically and literally 
      • Inside, Jon hung sword and scabbard from a hook in the stone wall, ignoring the others around him. Methodically, he began to strip off his mail, leather, and sweat-soaked woolens. Chunks of coal burned in iron braziers at either end of the long room, but Jon found himself shivering. The chill was always with him here. In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm.
        
        The weariness came on him suddenly, as he donned the roughspun blacks that were their everyday wear. He sat on a bench, his fingers fumbling with the fastenings on his cloak. So cold, he thought, remembering the warm halls of Winterfell, where the hot waters ran through the walls like blood through a man's body. There was scant warmth to be found in Castle Black; the walls were cold here, and the people colder.
    • Jon has no friends and is homesick
      • Jon followed the rest back to the armory, walking alone. He often walked alone here. There were almost twenty in the group he trained with, yet not one he could call a friend.
      • He missed his true brothers: little Rickon, bright eyes shining as he begged for a sweet; Robb, his rival and best friend and constant companion; Bran, stubborn and curious, always wanting to follow and join in whatever Jon and Robb were doing. He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but "my half brother" since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant. And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. 
    • Speaking of which: Benjen cuts him loose
      • Even his uncle had abandoned him in this cold place at the end of the world. Up here, the genial Benjen Stark he had known became a different person. He was First Ranger, and he spent his days and nights with Lord Commander Mormont and Maester Aemon and the other high officers, while Jon was given over to the less than tender charge of Ser Alliser Thorne.
        
        Three days after their arrival, Jon had heard that Benjen Stark was to lead a half-dozen men on a ranging into the haunted forest. That night he sought out his uncle in the great timbered common hall and pleaded to go with him. Benjen refused him curtly. "This is not Winterfell," he told him as he cut his meat with fork and dagger. "On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns. You're no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you."
        
        Stupidly, Jon argued. "I'll be fifteen on my name day," he said. "Almost a man grown."
        
        Benjen Stark frowned. "A boy you are, and a boy you'll remain until Ser Alliser says you are fit to be a man of the Night's Watch. If you thought your Stark blood would win you easy favors, you were wrong. We put aside our old families when we swear our vows. Your father will always have a place in my heart, but these are my brothers now." He gestured with his dagger at the men around them, all the hard cold men in black.
        
        Jon rose at dawn the next day to watch his uncle leave. One of his rangers, a big ugly man, sang a bawdy song as he saddled his garron, his breath steaming in the cold morning air. Ben Stark smiled at that, but he had no smile for his nephew. "How often must I tell you no, Jon? We'll speak when I return."
      • Ben Stark’s uncle face and his First Ranger face + comparison to Ned’s father’s face and lord’s face
      • George removing players who know RLJ off the board
    • He’s alone, angry, disillusioned, and convinced he’s thrown his life away
      • No one had told him the Night's Watch would be like this; no one except Tyrion Lannister. The dwarf had given him the truth on the road north, but by then it had been too late. Jon wondered if his father had known what the Wall would be like. He must have, he thought; that only made it hurt the worse. 
  • Grenn & Co. attack
    • Outnumbered
      • Jon lifted his eyes at the sullen voice. Grenn loomed over him, thick of neck and red of face, with three of his friends behind him. 
    • Again, they call him a bastard 
      • “You broke my wrist, bastard boy.”
    • Toad even goes after Jon’s mom 
      • “Is that your mommy’s mouth, bastard? What was she, some whore? Tell us her name. Maybe I had her a time or two.”
• Then all of this is reframed by Donal Noye’s sharp lesson
  • Complaining won’t make Castle Black any warmer (again--literally or figuratively)
    • “Yes. Cold and hard and mean, that’s the Wall, and the men who walk it. Not like the stories your wet nurse told you. Well, piss on the stories and piss on your wet nurse. This is the way it is, and you’re here for life, same as the rest of us.”
  • Instead, develop class consciousness and a sense of brotherhood
    • They’re afraid of him, not the other way around
      • "They're not my brothers," Jon snapped. "They hate me because I'm better than they are."
        
        "No. They hate you because you act like you're better than they are. They look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he's a lordling." The armorer leaned close. "You're no lordling. Remember that. You're a Snow, not a Stark. You're a bastard and a bully."
        
        "A bully?" Jon almost choked on the word. The accusation was so unjust it took his breath away. "They were the ones who came after me. Four of them."
        
        "Four that you've humiliated in the yard. Four who are probably afraid of you. I've watched you fight. It's not training with you. Put a good edge on your sword, and they'd be dead meat; you know it, I know it, they know it. You leave them nothing. You shame them. Does that make you proud?" 
    • Steel and training count for more than size or strength 
      • "They're all older than me," he said defensively.
        
        "Older and bigger and stronger, that's the truth. I'll wager your master-at-arms taught you how to fight bigger men at Winterfell, though. Who was he, some old knight?"
        
        "Ser Rodrik Cassel," Jon said warily. There was a trap here. He felt it closing around him.
        
        Donal Noye leaned forward, into Jon's face. "Now think on this, boy. None of these others have ever had a master-at-arms until Ser Alliser. Their fathers were farmers and wagonmen and poachers, smiths and miners and oars on a trading galley. What they know of fighting they learned between decks, in the alleys of Oldtown and Lannisport, in wayside brothels and taverns on the kingsroad. They may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here, but I promise you, not one in twenty was ever rich enough to own a real sword." His look was grim. "So how do you like the taste of your victories now, Lord Snow?"
    • You have to understand this to understand (and lead) the Night’s Watch
      • “You know, we have men on the Wall whose mothers were whores.”
      • “You think you had it hard, being a high lord’s bastard?” the armorer went on. “That boy Jeren is a septon’s get, and Cotter Pyke is the baseborn son of a tavern wench. Now he commands Eastwatch by the Sea.”
      • “The Watch has need of every man it can get,” Donal Noye said when they were alone. “Even men like Toad. You won’t win any honors killing him.”
      • “Yes, life,” Noye said. “A long life or a short one, it’s up to you, Snow. The road you’re walking, one of your brothers will slit your throat for you one night.”
  • This is faaaaar more effective teaching than what Alliser is doing
    • Jon hesitated. He did feel proud when he won. Why shouldn’t he? But the armorer was taking that away too, making it sound as if he were doing something wrong. 
    • “Don’t call me that!” Jon said sharply, but the force had gone out of his anger. Suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty. “I never...I didn’t think...”
• As such, Jon is inspired by Bran’s return to reach out to Grenn 
  • He thought he lost his family, so screw these people
    • Most were two or three years his senior, yet not one was half the fighter Robb had been at fourteen. Dareon was quick but afraid of being hit. Pyp used his sword like a dagger, Jeren was weak as a girl, Grenn slow and clumsy. Halder's blows were brutally hard but he ran right into your attacks. The more time he spent with them, the more Jon despised them. 
    • “I don’t care,” Jon said. “I don’t care about them and I don’t care about you or Thorne or Benjen Stark or any of it. I hate it here. It’s too...it’s cold.” 
  • But now his generosity returns along with Bran 
    • Jon noticed Grenn a few feet away. A thick woolen bandage was wrapped around one hand. He looked anxious and uncomfortable, not menacing at all. Jon went to him. Grenn edged backward and put up his hands. "Stay away from me now, you bastard."
      
      Jon smiled at him. "I'm sorry about your wrist. Robb used the same move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells, but yours must be worse.”
    • Interesting to note that Ned wanted to bring Bran south because of his kind and loving nature: Ser Rodrik tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey. That is not healthy. Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine. Our House will be the safer for it.
      • Seeing this in action in Jon: how Jon jumps at the chance to make friends because of the mere thought of Bran is a nice callback and testament to how awesome of a kid Bran is.
  • He’ll use his knowledge of their weaknesses to teach them, not “despise them”
    • “Look, if you want, I can show you how to defend that.”

Likes/Dislikes

Like: Reads like a short story/novella with Jon starting out one way, learning lessons from 3 mentor figures (Donal Noye, Benjen and Tyrion) and then, having learned his lessons, improves himself. Speaking of Noy, if it wasn’t clear enough in my summary, I adore Donal Noye and find him one of my favorite minor characters in the story. The dude is a legend, and his baiting and trapping Jon to make him reconsider his ways was splendidly done. 

Dislike: There’s a few beats that feel forced. The main one is when Tyrion and Jon are talking about Ghost and how everyone is scared of Ghost, and then Tyrion just transitions right into “The talk is your uncle is too long away.” It’s a weird transition where George had a better place to transition earlier when Tyrion asks Jon “Why is it that when one man builds a wall, the next man immediately needs to know what is on the other side.” 

Like: the constant use of ice and fire imagery and reminders of the temperature to ground us at Castle Black. In particular, I’m fascinated by the contrast between Jon’s complaint that Castle Black is “too cold” with the way GRRM associates Jon himself with ice and cold: 

Under black wool, boiled leather, and mail, sweat trickled icily down Jon’s chest as he

pressed the attack. 

Jon took off his helm as the other boys were pulling Grenn to his feet. The frosty morning air felt good on his face. He leaned on his sword, drew a deep breath, and allowed himself a moment to savor the victory.

Jon was cold with rage. “Can I go?”

This works on a number of levels: it symbolizes how Jon is overlooking his Stark identity and the privileges it grants him, it connects him to Ned (so often described as cold and frozen, yet with a warm heart underneath), and it hints that despite his protests, he’s right where he should be. 

Dislike: Alliser Thorne gets some cutting dialogue, but there's no depth to him and there’s not much payoff to the battle lines drawn so ominously at chapter’s end. For the rest of the series to date, Ser Alliser keeps getting sent off somewhere or rendered irrelevant. He targets Sam in Jon’s next chapter, but Jon’s defiance is ultimately more about his dynamic with the other boys (following up on his outreach to Grenn in this chapter) than him v. Alliser; Jon goes for Alliser’s throat RE Ned’s downfall, but that’s shunted aside by the wight attack and then LC Mormont dispatches Alliser to King’s Landing, where he is stymied by Tyrion; Alliser tries to take control at Castle Black via Janos Slynt upon his return, but is interrupted by Stannis’ arrival and then foiled by Jon’s election; finally, LC Snow sends Alliser ranging and his true antagonist becomes Bowen Marsh. At least the show added a little complexity to his character in the Wall battle episode and had him front and center during the assassination. 

Foreshadowing/Groundwork

Callback to AGOT, Bran III

In a few years, he would forget what it felt like to be warm

Vs what Bran sees in his vision:

He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

A hint that Benjen knows R+L=J

If you thought your Stark blood would win you easy favors, you were wrong. We put aside our old families when we swear our vows. Your father will always have a place in my heart, but these are my brothers now.

Calls back to Cat’s memory of Ned telling her that Jon “is my blood, and that is all you need to know.” Also curious if Benjen is slyly referring to Rhaegar here. Given the theory that Benjen may have played a role in R+L=J, could it be that Benjen thinks fondly of the Targaryen Crown Prince?

Tyrion threatening Alliser that he’ll use his influence at court to starve the Watch of men nicely sets up their standoff in ACOK

Jon’s coming struggle against Mance Rayder in ASOS and some interesting wording about what Jon wants to do with the Others: 

He wanted to ride with Benjen Stark on his rangings, deep into the mysteries of the haunted forest, wanted to fight Mance Rayder's wildlings and ward the realm against the Others

A sly allusion to the Others as cruel gods, “winter”

Castle Black had no godswood, only a small sept and a drunken septon, but Jon could not find it in him to pray to any gods, old or new. If they were real, he thought, they were as cruel and implacable as winter.

Compare this to what Gilly and Craster say to Jon/Sam in ACOK/ASOS

Gilly:

"What gods?" Jon was remembering that they'd seen no boys in Craster's Keep, nor men either, save Craster himself.

"The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows.” (ACOK, Jon III)

Craster:

"A godly man got no cause to fear such. I said as much to that Mance Rayder once, when he come sniffing round. He never listened, no more'n you crows with your swords and your bloody fires. That won't help you none when the white cold comes. Only the gods will help you then. You best get right with the gods." (ASOS, Samwell II)

Theories/Discussion

Conclusion

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