PATREON EXCLUSIVE (Full Video): The art of giving women space
Added 2025-01-11 00:10:07 +0000 UTC
Comments
@Peter - Certainly if you're NOT "sorry FOR", then saying so WOULD be disingenuous, but I usually try to make it a point to BE "sorry FOR" (even if the words are not explicitly used) when I am at fault and have caused ACTUAL pain -- children (of any sort) especially need to see a model for GENUINE regret, the precursor to future prevention and error avoidance. Leadership is not a "weekend thing". In contrast, "sorry THAT" should always be expressed as near to the literal phrasing of the meaning as possible (to avoid ambiguity and the appearance of hypocrisy -- a slippery slope that many women unashamedly ski upon), as in "I'm sorry to HEAR that ..."
Joseph Omega
2025-01-17 16:26:53 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - Mixing metaphors, in my experience, few plans of mice and men survive the encounter with the enemy.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-15 01:25:50 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - I see merit in the "alone time"... but only as a euphemism for what must still be regulated by the man as the leader. Too often I see women try and call "alone time" only once their narcissistic manipulative drama has unravelled and they are fleeing from the trail of destruction left in the wake of their irrational chaos... projecting and deflecting ad infinitum as they try to exit stage left.
MB
2025-01-14 11:02:20 +0000 UTCVery interesting chat. Thanks fellas.
MB
2025-01-14 09:27:14 +0000 UTC@jc no i mean it exactly the other way around. I made a mistake, but im not sorry sorry, like feel regret or shame or pain. I see it neutral. Ok i guess that happened….. next time to it differently. No shame or pain or remose. In german wed say “ jucks mich nicht” lit “scratch me not” but “doesn’t bug me” I find it disingenuous to pretend to have some interpersonal hear wrenching moment about the pain you caused someone is you don’t. And you skill at manipulation is now a synonym for emotional intelligence. We all should strive for deeper awareness of our feelings and how those affect our behaviour and how our behaviour might make others feel and inturn act. Intelligent interaction with consideration for an undeniable human condition, would smoothen all our social interactions. Further while if i am stroking their ego wasn’t actually a consideration at the time. I can see what you mean. And under the premise of additing fault where the is none. Absolutely correct. Pandering. In my case it saying you are emotionally saddened and remorseful for your actions and their effect. When you arnt. That too would be pandering. An inauthentic performance
Peter
2025-01-14 04:27:07 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - I also had another exchange with my favorite oracle on the topic, where I explored what ChatGPT calls "ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny—that is, individual development echoing evolutionary development": https://chatgpt.com/share/6784e618-f3a8-800a-a531-68d7690f263b Here is one of the summary conclusions: Applying [Jaynes'] ideas to child development would align with broader principles of evolutionary biology and neuroscience, making the omission [from his original work] feel like a missed opportunity. Exploring how children [and child-like adults 😉] might "start bicameral" before [hopefully] transitioning into modern consciousness could provide a richer and more complete understanding of both individual and cultural evolution. It might also strengthen Jaynes' arguments by tying them more directly to observable developmental processes.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-13 10:16:52 +0000 UTC@Starship - Absent of the relentless onslaught of social conditioning from the Feminist priestesses (and their misguided accolyte "allies"), I think women (just as in the past), would more naturally follow their evolutionary instincts, and not be so eager to bite the hand that often LITERALLY feeds them. Not so much a question of "willing" to take on juvenile traits, so much as finding it easier, expedient and more productive to do so. Ironically, there would no longer be a need for women to exercise childish bravado and bluster (that trigger the emotional dysregulation and dissonance), but to revert to less abrasive (yet still juvenile) strategies.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-13 09:54:23 +0000 UTCI think that in the past more women were more willing to take this role of juvenile traits (not explicitly but in practice when following their husband/boss etc). But the ideology of much feminism tells them how powerful etc they are. The dissonance between the emotional dysregulation and the 'strong, powerful female' leader in relationships and at work is only likely to lead to more emotional dysregulation (we see the very high rates of anti-depressant use etc amongst young women compared to young men).
Starship
2025-01-13 07:48:05 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - I think I understand. It is also a highly juvenile trait to be unable to effectively distinguish between the world of dreams and that of the waking world -- only with MATURITY does there develop a clear and unambiguous distinction ... and then only AFTER you've had your coffee. PS. Have you ever read or heard of the the seminal book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruZoc0F5h_0&list=PLADAC77E75D1CAAD9 Here is "Mulder" trying to explain it to Bill Maher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bG_DOfGrA I raise this here to postulate that one possible reason why women and small children may often fail to fully differentiate between dreams (or intrusive thoughts) and reality, may be because of a still largely intact Bicameral Mind, upon which right-brain generated hallucinations manifest as ACTUAL voices and visions to their cognitive left brain. It would help explain why they would have difficulty taking ownership for their thoughts and actions, seeing as they are perceived as originating from "someone else". Just one hypothesis among many, I guess. 💁♂️
Joseph Omega
2025-01-12 20:54:44 +0000 UTC@Starship - Sure. I expanded upon the original ChatGPT exchange to include OTHER potentially NEOTENOUS behavioral traits, including "emotional dysregulation", which is essentially the topic of Alexander's current video -- here is an updated link: https://chatgpt.com/share/67841c9c-6820-800a-96a2-d074853722f5 If "Hypergamy" can indeed be considered among the list of other juvenile traits strongly associated with normal female behavior, a strong credible case can be made for an expanded model of their psychology based upon sound evolutionary theory. Adult women may not ACTUALLY be considered children in the LITERAL sense, but their psychological behavior may well mirror them to a HIGH degree of accuracy in very many cases. Something I think worth investigating further. What do you guys think?
Joseph Omega
2025-01-12 20:11:00 +0000 UTC@Renan - Wow. Well your story certainly trumps mine (at least in action sequences): Once I called the police after awaking to shrieking and a wielded steak knife, things just ... ENDED. I never gave the cops any of the gory specifics, and never made an official report or filed charges. BTW, I asked ChatGPT to elaborate on the laws concerning your ex's assertion that your recording was illegal: https://chatgpt.com/share/678415f8-ee3c-800a-a713-b36a434d8cc6 Unfortunately, and depending on the jurisdiction, her claim appears to have some merit.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-12 19:10:19 +0000 UTCHi Joseph - could you say a little more about how you think the Chat GPT discussion is relevant to what Alexander is saying in this video. Thanks.
Starship
2025-01-12 07:55:42 +0000 UTC@Joseph Omega - I think that means she had a nightmare in which he cheated. I’ve had them where my partner cheated; but I knew they were just dreams.
Eric Linden
2025-01-12 04:21:20 +0000 UTCIf you have video, audio, or photos to prove your side of the story, send them to someone you trust before calling police. Even though you have proof, you may be the one they take to jail. She may get your phone and delete your proof. Posting doesn’t always work either as it could get deleted by the social media company and be lost forever.
Eric Linden
2025-01-12 04:16:32 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - It DOES help to be fortunate enough to have an understanding wife capable of emotional self regulation in the midst of a meltdown. We should all be so lucky. 🙏
Joseph Omega
2025-01-12 03:38:21 +0000 UTCI actually recorded her when I put my foot down and said the relationship was over and I was moving out. She proceeded to lock all doors and hid all the keys. I had to jump out of a window to escape. It was the kind of situation no one ever expects to actually live and be inside. Was super scary and awful. Trying to escape from a window and she blocking me by putting herself in the way and she claiming physical abuse if I ever touched her. I never ever thought I'd experience something like that. I remembered a video of Alexander recommending recording abusive moments. After I've jumped the window, she unlocked the door and went after me, grabbing me and I found myself yelling loudly to make sure the neighbors heard me and I wasn't found guilty. When I did that, she finally backed down, let me go and went away crying, probably because she would face society's consequences, since I was only yelling "let me go, I wanna leave, let me leave" (she was crying and being the victim during all this situation). After the fact, she said the video I recorded actually worked against me, since it showed how I was the one being abusive by making her have a panic attack and not helping her. Kinda unbelievable. In other moment, she said recording conversations and recording her was against the law and she could sue me for it. Yikes. If anyone read this until the end, take Alexander's advice to heart: the most important step in a relationship is the first one: choosing right your partner.
Renan
2025-01-12 01:44:43 +0000 UTC@Alexander Grace - I fear you may be grossly underestimating the culture's capacity to bend over backwards to excuse all manner of aberrant female behavior. The World: "What did YOU do to PROVOKE her to act like this? Maybe some sort of emotional or other 'abuse'. Where there's smoke there's fire." Unless it rises to the level of actually pressing charges ... 🤷♂️
Joseph Omega
2025-01-12 01:02:44 +0000 UTCWording it either way can be taken the wrong way. I just call it “alone time.” My wife and I use that term, and it doesn’t offend either of us. However even my term could be taken the wrong way. Maybe just say “let’s pick up this conversation later,” and go do something away from each other.
Eric Linden
2025-01-11 23:48:57 +0000 UTCThx for ripping my eyes open. I'm in that exact situation right now, and I felt so bad and confused. She broke up with me out of nowhere after two years. This Patreon is the best investment I ever made.
Seigero Dero
2025-01-11 23:45:17 +0000 UTC@John & @MB - Fascinating. Conceptually and epistemologically, either seems to work. I'm kinda partial to the "giving" interpretation myself for the reasons @John suggested.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 22:36:37 +0000 UTCFilm her refusing to give you space
Alexander Grace
2025-01-11 22:33:38 +0000 UTC@Joseph Omega & @MB - Women are not children, but they are not the logical adults that men are either. My take on neoteny can be summed up by a video I believe JO shared a while back: https://youtu.be/C46rSIfTum4?si=VJhDcZspnDW6W2DZ
Eric Linden
2025-01-11 22:29:38 +0000 UTC@MB - I agree, but I think the manipulation only works if you are UNAWARE of it (which unfortunately many, if not MOST men, appear to be). In addition, it seems that VERY many men's desire is ACTUALLY for a MOMMY, the only TRULY unambiguous "adult woman" -- which is ironically a NOTORIOUS turn off for the vast majority of women. Persistent "leadership" of another does not necessarilly imply INFANTILIZATION (unless that is your fetish), but EDUCATION and GUIDANCE. Still, my suggestion was presented PRIMARILY as an offset for the special (and hopefully temporary) conditions of the "slippage into darkness and chaos" presented in Alexander's video. I'm not saying Nature is particularly FAIR, just LOGICALLY CONSISTENT.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 21:21:22 +0000 UTC@MB it really is a good question - just to elaborate.... The reason I think give is, if I'm taking, I'm taking it from her. - She controls the space, etc. If I'm giving it, I'm thinking of it more as something I can be generous and judicious with. The leadership aspect is everything here.
John
2025-01-11 21:15:45 +0000 UTCHmmmmm... interesting. I was thinking to 'take space'... but your response has made me think that either it fine, just so long as the man takes the lead and acts with conscious purpose.
MB
2025-01-11 21:10:20 +0000 UTC@MB That's a good question...I would say it's to give space. Strictly from a mindset point of view, giving is more powerful. It's certainly more intentional.
John
2025-01-11 21:07:30 +0000 UTCWhat is the right approach for a man... to 'give space' or to 'take space'?
MB
2025-01-11 20:50:39 +0000 UTC@Joseph Omega: if it gets to the point where the man is the adult and the woman the child... then it's done. A genuine man's want for a woman is for an ADULT woman, not a child. Note also that the 'child' persona is often used as a tool of manipulation by women who are a covert/ vulnerable narcissist (of which there are many).
MB
2025-01-11 20:48:28 +0000 UTC@hendrik veendijk - What does "cheating on her in her dreams" mean?
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 18:12:58 +0000 UTC@Renan - Indeed. I have experienced this phenomenon myself as well -- a Catch-22 situation for which there seems little recourse but "weathering it out". Locking doors and effective earplugs help.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 18:09:34 +0000 UTCGood advice, except when the woman follows you around the house and doesn't agree to become separate. I had one of those and it was so frustrating. I could see from a mile away that things were going South, then I calmly stated "things are getting are out hand, we can resume this discussion in a later time" and she would not leave me alone, demanding to resume the discussion right there and then and followed me around the house, blocking doors if I wanted to leave, even accusing me of abuse if I touched her to remove her from the door. I guess it was my fault in regards of selection of the woman to start a relationship with, lol.
Renan
2025-01-11 18:01:46 +0000 UTC@Peter - Don't you mean the converse: "You can apologize without admitting fault"? In fact, women do this ALL the time whenever they say "I'm sorry THAT" rather than "I'm sorry FOR". It is CLASSIC redirection by one skilled in "emotional intelligence". In my experience, men tend to possess a rather strong sense of both honor and authenticity, so not meaning what we say and not saying what we mean do not come naturally to us. Personally, I wouldn't be too anxious to "feed the beast of appeasement" by admitting fault (whether the child be of the chronological OR chromosomal type) -- I think you should reserve your admissions (and ACTUAL apologies, that is "sorry FOR's") for those individuals and occasions for which it would serve as CLEAR examples of humility for them to later emulate, and not as mere fodder to boost their starving egos.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 16:46:22 +0000 UTC@Lioninwinter - At the risk of sounding too flippant, it may be that if winning is your goal, you may have already lost.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 16:32:01 +0000 UTCThat first girl in the car looks like she lives of a diet of cocain and vodka
Peter
2025-01-11 11:59:53 +0000 UTCIn the past i would have apologised. Now. Never. And I’ve learned that you can admit fault, without apologies. In many cases i have to honestly say, i don’t actually feel regret… so why say im sorry when i am not? But its fair to acknowledge that i made a mistake , im not skirting accountability. Im not pretending to be infallible. (Personally i take it as rather maddening if someone messes up an doesnt even acknowledge it) „Oh did i do that? i messed up“ And „ov shit, i can see you are really hurt. I feel bad. Im so sorry i messed up“
Peter
2025-01-11 11:54:11 +0000 UTCYou must give children their place and time out does that.
David Pfaff
2025-01-11 10:46:17 +0000 UTCYes. The point being, don't get drawn into her desire for drama. It can be difficult, but is the only way to "win"
Lioninwinter
2025-01-11 08:28:48 +0000 UTC@Lioninwinter - Or conversely drive her to her senses -- after all, isn't that what timeouts are FOR?
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 07:48:47 +0000 UTCOmg yes, my last gf was crazy she blamed me for everything. She blamed me for cheating on her in her dreams. I had to apologise for that, she was so mad she didn't want to talk to me. I didn't know what to do. It was so crazy.
hendrik veendijk
2025-01-11 07:33:15 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - Rather than thinking of it in terms of "no justification" (which strikes me as an emotional hurdle of IMMENSE stoic discipline when the lightning strikes), I still believe it's much simpler (and less painful) to just focus on "we are the ADULTS" (and they the wayward children) from the very beginning. Seems to me a FRAMING issue -- the trick I think is to REMEMBER at the right time AT or BEFORE the upswing into madness and chaos. Still, "time-outs" SHOULD still be valid under this paradigm as well -- even MORE so, in fact.. Here is a very short but deeply profound realization I had with ChatGPT that seems to support a much larger conceptualization of "women as juveniles": https://chatgpt.com/share/67821f73-9930-800a-9e85-bae9fac3d8da Summary conclusion: Hypergamy could be seen as an extension of innate, neotenous strategies designed to maximize survival and reproductive success, particularly in environments where resource access and security are uncertain.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 06:51:19 +0000 UTCMen. When this situation happens to you, stop and think; Has my side of the interaction turned into mocking, ridiculing, or criticizing? This is where we men need to step up. If you are doing any of the three, you have lost control on your end, and you need to either stop or get away for awhile. You are no longer the calm leader. Women are the emotional ones. They can't logically step back and see it in themselves. We are the logical ones. If we are mocking, ridiculing, or criticizing, we ARE able to step back and see it in ourselves. We are never justified in getting emotional because she is getting emotional.
Eric Linden
2025-01-11 03:52:59 +0000 UTCIf she's worked up, stay silent. It will drive her nuts.
Lioninwinter
2025-01-11 02:25:00 +0000 UTCI liked this video - especially the part about removing yourself so that you can reflect on how you are experiencing the situation. I have NEVER won an ARGUMENT with my wife - because when she is arguing, telling me that I'm right is like an existential death. What I have done, is calmly stated my feelings or my position and then gone off to give space, like Alexander talks about. I'll even say "talking about this is not productive" Many times, not every time, but many times she has come around to make peace or even to apologize. It also helps me because I usually need to calm down myself. I know some guys aren't afforded that by their girlfriends or wives, so - my sympathies in that case.
John
2025-01-11 02:24:55 +0000 UTCThere may well be a PHILOSOPHICAL side to all of this: "Jordan Peterson - Why is Chaos symbolized as feminine?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viGgB44rxdU "Jordan Peterson Responds To Feminist: Why Women Are Represented By Chaos" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXS6PdpRksI
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 01:41:23 +0000 UTC@Eric Linden - I believe it depends upon both the nature of the problem as well as the nature of the participants: Granted some problems peter out on their own, but others just FESTER. I think the trick is to be able to determine which type is which BEFORE taking the plunge either way.
Joseph Omega
2025-01-11 01:39:29 +0000 UTCIf I’m the source of your problems, I’ll go away and your problems will too! Lol.
Trevor Burton
2025-01-11 01:34:24 +0000 UTCI know how it is. Exhausting is the right word.
Julian Bell
2025-01-11 01:26:28 +0000 UTCAlexander says take space. My late father told me to never go to bed angry. He meant well, but he was wrong. I followed his advice with my first two marriages and countless relationships. My third marriage is successful partly because I know when to say when. Some things have to wait until the next day, some even longer. Even when you are getting along well, you both need your alone time; time to just do your own thing for a while. That doesn't mean going out. Just go in the other room and read a book or do your own thing.
Eric Linden
2025-01-11 01:15:53 +0000 UTC
